Agriculture Committee on Dec. 21st, 2021

[Sylvie Lapointe]

That's correct.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

There is something that escapes me, and it may be due to the fact that I don't quite understand the agreement with the U.S. If there is no risk in selling the potatoes and if we are using a cleaning process in Canada that works, why did you suspend exports to the U.S., instead of trying to explain to the Americans that the process is working, that the potatoes pose no risk here and that, likewise, they pose no risk there?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Thank you for your question.

As you mentioned, it's virtually impossible to have a U.S. federal order rescinded. Our approach vis-à-vis the U.S. is to engage in technical discussions based on science and the measures we've taken to mitigate the risk, with the goal of reopening the border.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you for providing clear, concise and specific answers. I certainly appreciate it since we don't have a lot of time.

This is just my impression, but I wonder whether Canada's response has more to do with fearing U.S. reprisal than with holding its own. I don't mean to conflate the issues, but the recently imposed softwood lumber tariffs come to mind. To put it mildly, I think the U.S. is taking a cavalier stance on this issue. The looming American protectionism vis-à-vis electric vehicle manufacturing is another example.

To avoid being hit with a threat from the U.S., Canada is reducing or stopping its own potato exports. Canada is undermining its sector because it fears the consequences would be worse otherwise.

Is my take on the situation accurate, or do I have it all wrong?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Thank you for your question.

As a representative of the agency, I can't comment on broader trade issues with the U.S.

I can, however, assure you that, if we hadn't made the decision to temporarily suspend exports, the U.S. would have closed the border to seed and table stock potatoes from P.E.I. What's more, given the fact that we had no legal authority, doing so was our only option.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

All right.

I referred to something that is bothering not just me, but also a number of parliamentarians these days: the American attitude.

Nevertheless, I understand the situation. Let's say we accept this language.

What do we need to do to get trade back on track? As I believe Mr. Matheson mentioned earlier, we are talking about 84% of P.E.I.'s market. That's huge. The product losses will be considerable.

Have you drawn up a timetable? What steps must be taken to resume trade, considering that the products are already being sold across Canada without issue?

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Thank you for your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Sorry to cut you off, Ms. Lapointe, but could you please keep your answer to 10 seconds, if possible.

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Thank you.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Sylvie Lapointe]

We don't have a specific timetable, but in our view, making progress on the issue of table stock potatoes and getting the border reopened is absolutely crucial and urgent, because we see no risk with respect to potato wart.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Perron and Ms. Lapointe.

We now go to Mr. MacGregor for six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for helping guide this committee through this issue.

I will direct my first question to the CFIA. I'm hoping the CFIA will help this committee walk through this process.

The fields where the potato wart was recently detected were already under management plan regulations, so those potatoes were already ineligible for export to the United States and to the rest of Canada.

I'm hoping you can walk us through the metrics that are put into place that will lead to a suspension order for exports. If those potatoes were already under a management plan, they were not going to be exported. They were not in any danger of infecting other jurisdictions. Is it a single detection of potato wart that leads to an entire province-wide ban? Is CFIA not able to employ traceability methods and cauterize a wound and isolate a single farm? Can you just help the committee understand why detections in fields that were not eligible for export led to an entire province-wide ban? What metrics are in place that help you extrapolate to “This is a wider problem”? Can you just help us understand that, please?

[Dr. Siddika Mithani]

I would say this is not about just one detection causing borders to be closed or an infestation in the province to be declared.

The long-term management plan has allowed us to look at and to control the spread of the potato wart. From the perspective of trade with the U.S., as I have said, the issue with the U.S. has been the interpretation of the level of risk tolerance. That is the science discussion we are having.

With respect to it being in the regulated fields, maybe I can ask David Bailey to explain a little bit how these fields are regulated and what this means.

[David Bailey]

Yes. Thank you, President.

It seems on the surface that it's a simple thing, that there have been two little finds. In reality, as I said earlier, there has been a succession of finds: 33 finds over 21 years, with three in the last 12 months.

It is really the number of fields that become implicated. From a very straightforward perspective, there's the field in which there was the find, but then there are other fields that are related to the finds, and those fields add up. In this current context, we're looking at a large amount of acreage that needs to be assessed. It is the size of that acreage to be assessed that creates the pause on the part of those who look at risk, particularly from a risk tolerance perspective on behalf of our American counterparts.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

On risk tolerance, I appreciate that the investigation is ongoing and that you're not able to give this committee a clear timeline as to when it will be complete. I know scientific results from that laboratory testing are being provided to the USDA.

Is there any sense of what, from the United States' perspective, is an acceptable level of risk? As you said, those are ongoing conversations. Do you know what the end goal is that will help you achieve your ongoing investigation? At what level will this issue be resolved?

[David Bailey]

The United States has been fairly clear that they are looking, obviously, for the outcome of the investigation and the data related to that. They are also looking for information about the recent detection—what we would call “trace back and trace forward”, the history of that field and activity in those fields. They're looking for how we would delimit, what we call “delimitation surveys”. They are looking at gap identification, key points and those kinds of things.

They are also looking for the outcome of our national potato wart survey, which had already been started prior to the finds. They are looking at any risk mitigation measures for what is, down the road, ideally, not quarantined. If you separate what is quarantined and what is not, it's how we will manage the space that doesn't have the pest, meaning pest-free areas of production. Fundamentally, they want to review their own potato wart pest risk assessment. This is their own science work that they will do.

We are trying to work with them on that. We have provided them with our own pest risk assessment, which we recently updated. These kinds of things are the things the United States is looking for in order to understand the nature of the problem from their perspective before we can have the conversation about opening trade.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Representatives of the Government of P.E.I. may want to step in on my next question.

I just want to know a little bit more. When we have an outbreak of a pest in our crops, it suggests that the soil ecology is out of balance. We have pests such as potato wart springing into abundance. Can you walk the committee through mitigation efforts to try to combat this disease? What, so far, has shown success, etc.?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

That's in 25 seconds, please.

[Brian Matheson]

Carolyn, do you want to take that?

[Dr. Carolyn Sanford, Director, Animal Health, Regulatory, and Analytical Laboratories, Department of Agriculture and Land, Government of Prince Edward Island]

Certainly. Thanks for the question.

I guess I'd be cautious about using the words “spring into abundance” in terms of potato wart. It's a soil-borne fungus that isn't in a sprint or a marathon by any means, but it does like specific climate, temperatures and irrigation. I think we were fortunate—or unfortunate—this summer to have probably some ideal situations that helped us detect the pest.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Ms. Sanford. Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

We're going to go to our second round of questioning. You have five minutes, Mr. Epp.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for your time today.

Having listened to the testimony, I think what is clear is that what has changed seems to be American confidence in our system. I'm hearing from the witnesses that—

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The interpreter is indicating that the sound quality is too poor for them to interpret.

Can we get a new microphone?

Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Epp.