Agriculture Committee on June 13th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Why don't we just perhaps suspend for a minute or two and see if we can get this resolved.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Colleagues, we're going to keep going. Mr. Vauthier continues to stay on the phone, and we'll look at different options. Mr. Barlow has agreed to start a line of questioning with some of the other witnesses we have.

Mr. Barlow, I'll let you start.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Certainly, we apologize for the technical issues with our witnesses, but it's important that we have them here and take advantage of that opportunity, as I know they're very busy with what's happening on the ground.

I'll start with Ms. Zaburanna, the member of the parliament of Ukraine.

Thanks for taking the time to be with us.

I had an opportunity to read the rapid response plan that the FAO did earlier this year. It mentions that you're expecting about a third of your spring crop not to be harvested. Is that accurate? I know things can change very quickly in a conflict. Is that still accurate, or has it become better or worse than what was anticipated?

[Dr. Lesia Zaburanna]

Thank you for your question.

Yes. As I mentioned, indeed the 2022 planting season has been the most difficult in our history—that is, during the last 30 years. This is not only because of occupied territories—though I would like to mention that now, unfortunately, we do have about 23% of our territories occupied—but also because every day we have the risk of bomb attacks in each region. For example, last night we had the risk of bomb attacks in close to 80% of our country.

There are also logistical issues because Ukrainian farmers face an acute lack of fuel, fertilizers and plant protection products. As my colleague mentioned, we also have a lot of destroyed infrastructure objects—storage—so our farmers are very afraid that this year we will have a very unsuccessful planting season.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much for that update.

What would be the impact? I'm assuming it's very similar to your planting season in October. I know that's a long ways away and hard to predict, but are you already doing some forecasting on what that may look like if this continues in the way that it is now?

[Dr. Lesia Zaburanna]

It will absolutely depend on our position in this war.

First of all, as my colleague, Yulia Klymenko, mentioned the last time, we now need military assistance because only thanks to this support can we be more sure that in autumn we might have a really good planting season.

Right now it's very difficult to do any forecasting because you know that every day we have the risk of bomb attacks in each region, in each city, in each village, so now the most important instrument for our future successful agrarian development is military assistance from our partners and from Canada also.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Your colleague had mentioned last week that because of the blockade of the Black Sea and the loss of the port of Odessa, you're looking at trying to move commodities by rail or by truck but that to do that you needed additional veterinary and phytosanitary services at the borders.

I know that for us, even in Canada, those resources are not readily available. Are you able to access those needed resources to be able to move commodities through other means in the supply chain, or has that been difficult to access as well? What is your source to access that additional veterinary or phytosanitary service?

[Dr. Lesia Zaburanna]

You know, we also now have a problem, and it's a big issue for us. You know our situation with gas—with fuel—so it's also very bad for transportation.

We also have really limited access to the European borders. I would also like to say that the value—the price—of such transportation is very high. You know that now we have a lot of destroyed train infrastructure, and each day we have destroyed train stations and destroyed train infrastructure, so it's also not good for any logistical channels to Europe.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I just have one last quick question for Oxfam.

What would be the impacts...? You were talking about famine in other countries like Somalia. Are you anticipating social unrest? Maybe Mr. Putin is trying to initiate conflicts in other parts of the world as a result of what's going on in Ukraine. Is that something that Oxfam and maybe other groups are eyeing? Is it a possible consequence of this conflict in Ukraine?

[Lauren Ravon]

Social unrest is linked to food crises. The two are always tied. What I think is important to note here is that we've had early warning signs of the famine on the horizon since 2020. What is happening in the Horn of Africa, east Africa and west Africa, is not caused by the situation in Ukraine; it's exacerbated by it, but we have not been investing in or responding to early warnings that we've been receiving by ramping up humanitarian assistance in these regions.

These regions are already hit by the impacts of the climate crisis and of conflict in many of these countries, but we put in place over the past decade early warning systems to alert the international community when drought is on the horizon, when crops are failing and when we know there won't be enough rain to sustain agricultural production.

This is, as I said, exacerbated but not caused by the situation in Ukraine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Ms. Ravon and Mr. Barlow.

We'll turn to Ms. Taylor Roy for six minutes.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for being here, and in particular to the member of Parliament from Ukraine. We really appreciate your time in helping us understand the situation even more fully.

One of the things that you've been talking about this morning that's of concern is the number of internally displaced people in Ukraine right now. The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights estimated at the beginning of May that there were 7.7 million internally displaced people, about 17.5% of the country's population. How is that affecting the production on farms, and what are the major concerns about getting food to these people? You mentioned going into emergency mode as opposed to humanitarian assistance at some point.

I'll follow up later because I did want to speak to Oxfam too about the specific impacts on women of the internally displaced people and refugees as well, but perhaps we could start with what's been happening on the farms as people have been displaced.

Mr. Vauthier, are you able to answer now?

[Pierre Vauthier]

Apparently, I am. I don't know if I'm authorized.

I just said yes. I don't know if you....

[Dr. Lesia Zaburanna]

I'm sorry, is this question for me?

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Yes, Dr. Zaburanna, for you and for Mr. Vauthier.

[Dr. Lesia Zaburanna]

Okay, thank you. I didn't understand you clearly.

You're absolutely right that more than seven million people have been displaced, and now we have, as I mentioned, about 23% of our territories occupied. In the other territories, a lot of farmers are at very high risk of different bomb attacks, but you know, in our villages, we have a lot of people in the villages from other places, so we don't have a shortage of people who will try to do something in the agricultural sphere in villages. The most risk for us, as I mentioned, is aggression, war and bomb attacks. A lot of small and medium-sized farmers have very good technical equipment, and I am sure that if they have the stability to work safely, they will try to realize all of their plans during the planting season, so it's not a problem or an issue. Of course, we are very sorry that a lot of our people were replaced, but the most important problem for us is safety for our farmers.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Vauthier, do you have anything to what's happening, especially with the farmers who have been displaced from their land? What's happening with them right now?

[Pierre Vauthier]

For the people from occupied territories now, they moved everywhere in Ukraine close to their relatives. Most of the time, as Dr. Zaburanna was saying, they go to the countryside. The majority of the IDPs, the poor IDPs are in the countryside; the rich are in hotels. I have to say something. In fact, there is a lot of solidarity at moment among Ukrainians, so there are Facebook pages where they can find houses that are not occupied, and when they go to these villages, they they receive a few things, such as chickens—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I apologize, Mr. Vauthier. We're still having trouble with the audio, and the direction I'm getting right now is that the House rules state that we have to have simultaneous translation. We can certainly work to have you come back at another time. I know some committee members would really value hearing from you.

We'll let you carry on, Ms. Taylor Roy.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

I did have a question regarding the effect on women.

Lauren, I know you're joined here by Brittany Lambert, who specializes in women's rights policy. I'm interested in hearing from her on what the specific concerns or effects are for women among the internally displaced people and the whole war situation in Ukraine for them.

[Brittany Lambert, Women’s Rights Policy and Advocacy Specialist, Oxfam Canada]

Thanks for that question.

In Ukraine, one of the things that we're seeing, not only with the internally displaced people but also with the people who are being forced to cross the border, is that women and children make up about 90% of those fleeing because the men are staying back to fight. The gender and age profile of these refugees, who have lost everything and then are forced to put their trust in strangers, significantly increases the risk of gender-based violence, trafficking and abuse, so that's something we're very concerned about.

We're also concerned about similar issues for the people in Africa, for example, who are suffering from hunger and who are forced to migrate or flee because of that. There are many similar issues, namely, your vulnerability to gender-based violence or sexual exploitation and abuse when you're desperate for food, and the propensity to resort to harmful coping mechanisms like pulling daughters out of school or marrying them off early for a dowry to secure income for the family. I think that regardless of what area of the world we're talking about, hunger and displacement are having a disproportionate impact on women and girls.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Ms. Taylor Roy, you have about 25 seconds.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Very quickly, Ms. Lambert, can you tell us what is being done to address that, especially in the situation of Ukraine right now?

[Brittany Lambert]

Humanitarian response specifically in the protection sector protects vulnerable people like women who are forced to flee and makes sure we keep them safe.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Ms. Taylor Roy.

Thank you, Ms. Lambert.

Go ahead, Mr. Perron. You have six minutes.