Agriculture Committee on Feb. 14th, 2022

[David Duval]

Clearly. We have about 800 employees recruited overseas who are ready to come here. They have their passports and their visas. All they need now is to receive the federal government documents that allow them to come and be put into categories by Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.

That is where most of the problem lies. As soon the administrators and the computer people issue those documents, the employees will be able to come. That has to be done quickly too, because there are still delays.

According to the latest meetings I have had, those employees will not be arriving for May or June, but rather for September or October, if the timelines are adhered to.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Same old, same old, right, Mr. Duval?

[David Duval]

Exactly.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Now I have a question for Ms. MacKinnon.

How do you see the possibility of an improved use of robotics in processing companies? Should there be tax credits to encourage our companies to use more robotics?

[Marie-France MacKinnon]

We received $2 million from the federal government and we are currently working with a committee that is developing a long-term strategy to help to solve the labour problem. Robotics will be an integral part of that strategy. The project should be complete in 18 months. We will be looking at that.

As I mentioned at the start of my presentation, it is difficult for those in our industry to consider robotics and innovation. They would like to be able to do so; actually, they need to do so because that would help to solve the labour problem. However, we cannot ask those companies to invest time and resources in research and innovation when, some days, they don't even know whether they can get the production line in operation because they may not have enough employees to work a shift.

Once the labour force is stable and secure, once there are no longer such dramatic highs and lows as those we have experienced in the last two years, we will be able to consider long-term solutions using robotics.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I completely understand what you are saying: the processing industry is ready to consider robotics, but the labour problem will always be the most important one to solve. Even with robots in the companies, they will still need workers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Lehoux, your five minutes are up.

Thank you very much, Ms. MacKinnon.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for five minutes

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses appearing today.

Ms. MacKinnon, the opinion you gave the government is that, for your sector, the priority is absolutely access to labour, correct?

[Marie-France MacKinnon]

It's the number one priority. We need labour. Without labour, nothing can happen.

We need an increase in the cap on foreign workers to 30%. As I said previously, it's good news that Quebec has succeeded in having the cap increased to 20%. That's a step in the right direction, but it is not enough. In Quebec, companies like Olymel would still have problems even if the cap were 30%, 35%, or even a little higher.

Of course, we are pleased that the cap has been increased to 20%. It's better than 10%. However, the labour shortage is such a serious problem that we need the cap to be at 30%. It's a problem not only for Quebec but for the entire country. We would really like to have no cap, like the farmers, given that we too are an integral part of the agri-food sector. All producers work together and are interconnected.

If there has to be a cap, we would like it to be at least 30%. For some of our members, the rate is 10% at the moment, while for others, it's 20%. Let me give you the example of Sunterra Farms, a small company in Trochu, Alberta. They have already reached the 20% limit. In that rural area, no one is available to work in the operation. So the company needs foreign workers.

They are called temporary foreign workers, but there's nothing temporary about it. These are permanent jobs. Consequently, we should try to get the word “temporary” out of the designation, because this is not at all about temporary labour. We need permanent labour. The situation is critical.

We have proposed solutions to the various levels of government. We need action right now. We needed it yesterday and we need the results right now. You could announce an increase of the cap to 30% today, but the foreign workers would not arrive tomorrow. We would still have to wait months, perhaps even a year, before the worker started arriving. That is not even counting the problems that the foreign workers encounter because of all the government paperwork. We are not the only ones affected by the labour shortage. It's also a problem for the government, which means delays in processing the requests.

Something has to be done, because our members are in real difficulty.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Have you talked to your members about recruiting efforts? We may talk about a cap of 20% or 30%. But where will those workers come from, the workers with the skills needed to do the job your members require? Have you had conversations like that with them?

[Marie-France MacKinnon]

Sure we have. We are always making efforts to recruit. We have studies describing all the strategies that various companies use to recruit Canadian workers. We can provide them to you if you are interested. I don't believe that any other sector works as hard as ours to recruit Canadian workers.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'm not really talking about Canadian workers, but foreign workers. We have to find them.

Have you any data to show that, if the cap were increased to 30%, you would be able to hire foreign workers, say, with the help of companies or organizations that specialize in international recruiting, for example? Can you confirm that you would be able to find enough foreign workers to meet your labour needs?

[Marie-France MacKinnon]

If you give us a cap of 30%, we will reach it easily. We will be delighted to give you a report showing that we are able to do it. We have already established the contacts we need and we are already using the program. We have long waiting lists. We know where to go to recruit those workers. That is not the problem.

The problem is that we need the 30%. If you give us that 30% cap, our processors and the producers will see their situations improve immediately.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Mr. Duval, you talked about automation in your sector. I have two questions for you about that.

Have you personally seen how things happen in some places, perhaps in other countries, perhaps among your members or elsewhere, where there has been more automation?

What role could the government play to encourage more automation in our industries in Canada and Quebec?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Duval, you have 30 seconds for your answer.

[David Duval]

Countries all around the globe are investing heavily in robotics, because they are all facing a labour shortage. Strategically, that is certainly what has to be done. Employers understand that, but they will not be able to do it alone. The first part of the problem at least must be solved, in other words, a minimum level of labour has to be available. It must be understood that robotics will never solve the entire problem. Part of the situation will solve itself by having more workers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Duval.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for two minutes only, because I will then have to suspend the meeting for the vote.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. MacKinnon, could you also answer the question I asked Mr. Duval just now? We were talking about the number of processing plants in the country.

Do you feel it would be desirable to have other facilities in order to lighten the current load? I am thinking particularly about a support program for opening abattoirs or processing facilities close by.

[Marie-France MacKinnon]

Once again, that brings us back to the labour shortage. All the existing processing plants are having a hard time getting labour, so creating new facilities would make our situation even worse.

In the long term, of course, we could consider that kind of possibility, but at the moment, let's give our members the workers they need. Then we will be able to see what we can do on a larger scale across Canada. At the moment, before we go any further, we need more labour.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

We are very aware of the order in which things have to be done. I just wanted to know whether any idea in particular is of interest to you.

You were saying that you would be very happy if the cap on foreign workers for your industry were increased to 30%. However, in my conversation with Mr. Duval just now, we heard that the agricultural sector has no percentage imposed on it. So why keep a percentage like that in the agri-food sector, which is directly related to the agricultural sector?

Some flexibility in that respect would help you, would it not? For example, some operations could have 35% of foreign workers. That would make it easier for groups to apply for permanent immigration, and so on.

[Marie-France MacKinnon]

That is an excellent idea, and I really hope the government will move in that direction.

However, in our conversations with the government, it has shown no great desire to eliminate the cap. We quickly gathered that it is never going to be eliminated. So the cap at the moment is set at 10%. It will go to 20%, but that will not be enough. Given that both parties have to find common ground, a 30% cap is better than nothing.

However, as Mr. Duval said, not having—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Ms. MacKinnon.

Thank you, Mr. Perron.

Colleagues, I have a couple of things to say. I'm going to use my discretion as chair.

To the witnesses, thank you. I know it was challenging trying to balance that, and we appreciate your time.

Housing plays an important role or part in committee report as well. I don't have the time to ask you a question, nor do you have the time to respond, but I would welcome any submissions you may give to this committee about housing.

On the temporary foreign worker piece, you're right that this committee has recommended that before. With the housing situation in the country, what can we do as a government? What can industry do to partner and support the housing element for the workers that would be coming? I would welcome those answers.

Thank you again for being here.

Colleagues, we are going to suspend. The clerk has sent you both the English and French translations of the amendments that are being proposed.

We will break for 10 minutes during the vote. As soon as those 10 minutes is up, I will re-establish the meeting and we will carry on with our next panel.

Thank you. We will see you soon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

All right, colleagues. We're back.

We're on the second panel here. I'm going to quickly introduce our guests and then we have to get our procedural work done.

From the Canadian Hatching Egg Producers, we have Brian Bilkes, the chair, and Drew Black, the executive director. From the Canadian Poultry and Egg Processors Council, we have Ian McFall, chair of the board of directors, and Jean-Michel Laurin, the president and chief executive officer. From the Egg Farmers of Canada, we have Roger Pelissero, the chair, and Tim Lambert, the chief executive officer. They're certainly no strangers to this committee.

We welcome all the witnesses, but first we need to return to what we had been dealing with in the first panel. There are two amendments that have been brought to the floor. If there is no more debate, we can move directly to votes, but I do see two hands.

We're going to go to Mr. MacGregor and then to Mr. Drouin.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I appreciate what Mr. Barlow is bringing forward. I'm personally in favour of the first amendment, which is the inserting of the word “illegal”, but on the second amendment, my main focus is to try to keep this motion quite focused.

It's really a declaration of support for the agricultural industries that are being negatively impacted by the blockade. To flip it around, when the blockades were going on in February 2020, would this committee have entertained the idea of calling on the federal government to put in place a plan to stop all pipeline development? That's another way of flipping this. In the interests of trying to keep us all onside and on track, I would be in favour of removing that second amendment and keeping this motion worded with the addition of the word “illegal”.

That's the way I'm leaning, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Go ahead, Mr. Drouin.