Agriculture Committee on March 6th, 2023

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I think my final question I will direct to Statistics Canada.

In a previous meeting of this committee under the same study, we had Mr. Tyler McCann from the Canadian Agri-Food Policy Institute. He informed us that Canadian researchers don't have access to the same data on agricultural and retail prices as their counterparts in the United States do. I'll just read a quote. He said:

We simply do not have this level of credible, meaningful analysis in Canada. Your committee's study would benefit from an organization like Agriculture Canada, Stats Canada or the Competition Bureau producing this level of detail. The committee should consider recommending that the Government of Canada take the steps necessary to collect data and conduct the same level of analysis that is available in the U. S. and to make the results of that analysis public.

I think what was specifically being referred to here was the United States Department of Agriculture's economic research service.

My question to you is simply what your response to Mr. McCann's comments would be and what would be required for you to provide that same type of data so that policy-makers could act on it.

[Matthew MacDonald]

Thank you for the question.

The majority of the information we collect is used for statistical purposes to create economic indicators that ultimately feed into measures of economic output or macroeconomic indicators.

I think what you're referring to is a regulatory framework in which you would have financial information that you track entirely through the supply chain in order to be able to have these hand-offs between these different sectors of the economy, which we don't really have right now. We just collect this information from different industries, and then we aggregate it and produce it in an aggregate form.

To answer your question, I think it would require a bit more of a regulatory framework to provide this information or impose a requirement for this information.

Really, the information that we collect is safeguarded under the Statistics Act, meaning that we collect confidential information about companies but we're not allowed to disclose it. Therefore, we only produce it in aggregate for economic indicators.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. MacDonald. Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

Mr. Durocher, I have two quick hitters for you. Just so I'm clear, you have the legislative tools to compel evidence in investigations but not in studies. You've made it very clear that it would be helpful in the studies. I see you nodding, so I'll take that as a yes.

What is the threshold in order to be able to establish an investigation? Is there a legislative threshold, or is that really discretion that's held by the bureau? Is it what Ms. McWhinnie was talking about with the three different factors? That's question number one.

As question number two, if you launch an investigation and you then are able to collect evidence because of your ability to compel it, is there any preclusion from using that evidence and that information in the study down the line?

[Anthony Durocher]

On the threshold question, generally speaking, there's a threshold to go into an inquiry under the Competition Act. Once we're on a formal inquiry, that's when we can apply to the court for subpoena powers or for search and seizure if there's a criminal offence. Basically, you need a reason to believe that an offence under the Competition Act may have occurred. You really need grounds. You can't just think that something is amiss. It's a concentrated sector, so we need evidence to substantiate why we think we need to compel information. It's an important threshold.

In terms of using the information we obtain, it's case by case. There are considerations between civil and criminal issues that we take into account. In all cases, I think we're informed by the legal advice from our counsel with the Department of Justice as to the appropriate way to use the information we obtain.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

There's nothing from the legislative side that would require further clarification on what you can and can't do on that side, or would it just be the general principles of evidence from criminal law and civil matters from lawyers?

[Anthony Durocher]

Yes. That's correct.

Our respectful submission is that legislative issues are live for the Competition Act right now, and the ability to compel for market studies issue and for merger law in general is ripe for conversation. The ability for the bureau to tackle any competitive mergers is an essential issue in the consultation right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, colleagues, for the small indulgence.

Thank you to our witnesses. On behalf of all of our committee, thank you to the folks at the Competition Bureau for the work that you do. Thank you for being here today.

To Mr. Schaan with ISED and to our folks online from Statistics Canada, thank you so much.

Colleagues, good night. I'm being told to hit this hammer to say that we're done.