Evidence of meeting #53 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lee.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Neil Hetherington  Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank
Lori Nikkel  Chief Executive Officer, Second Harvest Canada
Byron Louis  Okanagan Indian Band, Assembly of First Nations
Ian Lee  Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
Ian Boxall  President, Agricultural Producers Association of Saskatchewan
Franco Terrazzano  Federal Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 53 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

I will start with a few reminders.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee. Screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, October 5, 2022, the committee is resuming its study of food price inflation.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses for this first one‑hour panel.

Today we welcome three different witnesses. We are having issues with our representatives from the Assembly of First Nations, but we're very fortunate to have in the room, from the Daily Bread Food Bank, Neil Hetherington, chief executive officer.

Mr. Hetherington, welcome to the committee.

From Second Harvest Canada, we have someone who has appeared before this committee and is no stranger to our work, Ms. Lori Nikkel, chief executive officer.

Welcome back to the committee. We look forward to hearing from you here today.

Colleagues, if we are able to get our friends from the Assembly of First Nations online, we'll grant them five minutes, but I want to get started with those who are in the room.

I'm going to start with Mr. Hetherington.

We'll go over to you, and you have up to five minutes.

6:35 p.m.

Neil Hetherington Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank

Thank you very much.

My name is Neil Hetherington, and I have the awesome privilege of being the CEO of the Daily Bread Food Bank, Canada's largest food bank, based in Toronto, with a mission that everybody's right to food is one day realized.

I'm here to talk about three points, to let you know what we are seeing on the ground in the food bank sector, to provide you with some recommendations for consideration and to give you an invitation for you to ensure that everybody's right to food is realized.

On the first point, what we are seeing is unprecedented. There are 5.8 million Canadians who are food insecure. In Toronto, with the food banks that Daily Bread serves, we used to see about 65,000 clients per month. With the pandemic, that number rose to 120,000, and between January 2021 and today, we are now seeing 270,000 client visits per month. That's from 65,000 to 270,000 clients per month. If there's nothing else that you take from my testimony today, I hope you take that startling, horrific number away.

The fact is that we are seeing client growth at a remarkable rate. Previous to the pandemic, we saw about 400 or so new clients per month. That number during the pandemic rose to just under 2,000 per month, and last month we saw 12,400 new clients, people who had never used a food bank before, coming to the Daily Bread Food Bank for the first time.

You've heard testimony from economists and from food producers, suppliers and retailers, each of whom have provided their opinion as to what's driving the unprecedented food inflation that we all feel, so I won't speak to those complex factors. What I will speak to is the impact of food inflation that is being felt at the community level. We continue to see large proportions of clients who have fixed incomes coming to food banks, but what's new is that we are now seeing individuals who are working full time having to make use of food banks. In fact, that number has risen to about one-third of food bank clients having full-time employment. That number doubled over the past year, so if you have a job, that doesn't guarantee that you are not going to need a food bank.

We've started to look at the correlations between food bank usage and various economic indicators. We've looked at employment, and we've looked at market rents, and the direct correlation between food bank usage and inflation is the only real correlation we have seen that can account for this unprecedented growth. Make no mistake, food inflation at 11.6% and CPI north of 6% is having a marked direct, deep impact on food insecurity in Canada.

As important as it is to examine what is producing the rapid increase in food prices, we also need to ask what led us to this situation, a situation where the lack of an extra $30 to $50 per person per month is causing individuals to have to rely on food charity. We need to start with how we got here.

While the rate of poverty in Canada has declined over the past number of years, some two million Canadians remain in deep poverty. That means that their income falls below 75% of the official poverty line. What does that mean on the ground? In Toronto it means, if you are coming to a food bank, that on average you have $8.01 left over per day after paying for your rent and utilities. That's eight dollars, and one in five food bank users in Toronto have nothing. They have used all of their income on rent and utilities, and they have to rely completely on charity, family and friends to be able to make up the difference.

There is hope, and there's hope in these recommendations that I have before you. We're pleased to see the movement of Bill C-22, with the Canada disability benefit unanimously passed in the House and with the Senate right now. That will have a dramatic effect for so many Canadians.

We're grateful for a number of income programs, such as the Canada child benefit, old age security and the guaranteed income supplement, all of these being indexed to inflation. Those are positive, but we need to recognize that there's a significant gap that remains in our social safety net. The biggest gap is among working-age, single individuals, who represent close to half of food bank clients and half of those living in deep poverty in Canada. These individuals have very few income supports available to them beyond social assistance, and, to be clear, social assistance, at least in Ontario, is about one-third the level of the poverty line in the province.

If we want to protect Canadians from the impacts of inflation, then we need to address the financial precarity that is the reality of so many households. It's time to close the gap for single, individual adults in our social safety net, just as we've done for children and for seniors.

We recommend transforming the Canada workers benefit into a Canada working age supplement that has a lower eligibility threshold and a higher maximum benefit level, and indexing it and all future income supports to inflation.

We recognize that with rampant inflation the government will be cautious on spending and stimulating the economy, but we are proposing a measure to support those in deepest poverty.

The Daily Bread Food Bank and food banks across the country are already at a breaking point. We are bracing for another rise in food bank visits. In fact, this past April, Statistics Canada indicated that one in five Canadians said that they are going to have to rely on community, on food charities, on family and on friends to be able to get by.

Charities can't meet this need. We need all levels of government to come together to act to ensure that Canadians can afford to put food on their tables.

We said we were going to build back better—

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

We're going to have to—

6:40 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank

Neil Hetherington

This is my last sentence or maybe three sentences. I'm in the business of begging; I'm a charity. Thank you for indulging me on that.

Finally, I want to leave you with a quote from Bryan Stevenson, the civil rights lawyer, who said that the opposite of poverty is not wealth, but justice.

You, as duty bearers in positions of power, have the opportunity to spread justice through making sure that every single Canadian has their right to food realized.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you very much, Mr. Hetherington.

We're now going to turn to Ms. Nikkel for up to five minutes, please.

6:40 p.m.

Lori Nikkel Chief Executive Officer, Second Harvest Canada

Thank you, Chair and committee members, for the opportunity to appear before you and discuss the critical issue of food security and the impacts that rising food costs are having on Canadians.

First, I'd like to say that I agree one hundred per cent with everything Mr. Hetherington just said.

As you may remember from my last appearance before this committee, Second Harvest is Canada's largest food rescue organization. We are a global thought leader on perishable food redistribution. We strive to grow an efficient food recovery network to fuel people and reduce the environmental impact of avoidable food waste.

That mission is all the more important during difficult and uncertain economic periods. As we all know, we are in the middle of one of those periods. The food sector is facing unprecedented adversity.

Rising costs—the reason we're here today—labour shortages and climate change have been a considerable burden for producers and businesses across the supply chain. Solving these challenges has proved to be very complicated. Even though food companies are innovating, investing in new technologies and trying to find efficiencies, addressing these issues will not be easy or happen quickly.

In the meantime, the Canadian public is bearing the brunt of the challenging economic landscape.

As inflationary pressures lead to higher grocery prices, the use of food charities in Canada has increased significantly, and support for Canadians is expected to continue rising in 2023 by an additional 60%, based on a recent poll done by Second Harvest. These organizations, of which there are 61,000, are triaging an affordability crisis affecting households nationwide. Every day, Canadians are forced to choose between healthy nutritious food and other essentials like housing, heating, water and transportation. Food is a discretionary cost, so not only is the price of food making it prohibitive to purchase enough groceries; it's forcing Canadians to buy the least nutritional and most overly processed foods, because that's what they can afford, if they can afford it at all.

As everyone here knows, poor nutrition is linked to many negative health outcomes, including heart disease, stroke, some cancers and type 2 diabetes, not to mention food insecurity's impact on mental health and cognitive behaviour. In children, poor nutrition results in lower educational outcomes and problems with physical, emotional and psychological development that will live with them throughout their lives. Not only are rising food costs pushing more Canadians into food insecurity in the short term, but the impact of being unable to access healthy foods will last far longer than the inflationary pressure we face today. While long-term solutions are sorely needed, in the meantime we must act now to ensure Canadians have access to the nutrients they need to live a healthy life.

I cannot stress enough the desperation that is being felt by Canadians across this country as people are simply trying to survive and don’t have the means to make ends meet. As Neil said, for many of them it is for the first time ever. These are people with full-time jobs.

This committee faces a very difficult question: How can our government fix this?

In addition to the recommendations I made in October to bring back the emergency food security fund and the surplus food rescue program, I recommend that this committee investigate the impact that eliminating best-before dates would have on Canadians. Best-before dates are wildly misunderstood. They are not expiry dates. They refer to a product’s peak freshness. While Canadians struggle to put food on the table, they are also convinced that best-before dates are about safety and will throw away perfectly good food to protect themselves and their families. Eliminating best-before dates would prevent safe, consumable food from being thrown out and save Canadians money on their grocery bills.

While the issues of food affordability and growing food insecurity are complex and require long-term solutions to resolve, there is more that we can do right now to ensure millions of vulnerable Canadians are not going hungry. Currently, for every one grocery store there are four non-profits feeding Canadians and filling legislative gaps. I ask all committee members for their efforts and support to address this crisis head-on.

Thank you.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you very much, Ms. Nikkel.

I'm told that we have Chief Louis online.

Chief, if you're there and you can turn on your camera on, we can turn the mike over to you.

If you can hear me, Chief Louis, the floor is yours. You have up to five minutes. We might have to do a slight microphone test.

Maybe that's already been done, Madam Clerk.

I'm going to turn the floor over to you, Chief Louis, and we'll start from there.

You're on mute, sir. Down at the bottom of your screen, in the left corner, there might be a mute button that you can click to unmute.

Okay, we can hear you in the room. We're going to do our best for our translators, and if there are issues, Mr. Louis, I'll intervene. Why don't you go ahead?

6:45 p.m.

Chief Byron Louis Okanagan Indian Band, Assembly of First Nations

Good afternoon, everyone.

[Witness spoke in Nsyilxcen]

[English]

My name is Byron Louis. I'm the chief of the Okanagan Indian Band.

It's an honour to be here today to share the perspectives of the Assembly of First Nations, the AFN, concerning food price inflation and its devastating impacts on first nations.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Mr. Louis, I apologize. We're being told that the microphone for your headset is not selected. There is a technical team trying to call. I'm happy to try to walk you through this as well.

Basically, down near the mute button, Mr. Louis, you can click and then make sure that your proper headset is selected. We have strict rules to make sure that we're protecting our interpreters, as you can appreciate.

6:50 p.m.

Okanagan Indian Band, Assembly of First Nations

Chief Byron Louis

Okay.

Can everyone hear me?

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

We're just going to suspend for a minute, if we could, Madam Clerk, and we'll try to get this cleared up technically. If not, we might move to some of the questions.

Chief Louis, if you could just keep your phone handy, the technicians are going to try to call.

We're going to suspend for just a few minutes.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Chief Louis, we're going to get started again. Our tech team is going to work with you, Chief Louis. We do have a second panel. I have no concerns about adding you to that panel and allowing you to participate, unless we are good right now, but I don't think so.

I'd ask the clerk to perhaps put you in a wait room. You'll work with the tech team until we get you A1, and then we'll bring you back in. I don't want to preclude our moving forward, so we are going to turn to questions.

I'll start with Ms. Rood for up to six minutes.

It's over to you.

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

Those are some staggering numbers that we heard in the opening remarks here. I think if Canadians are watching today, they will be as surprised as I was to hear about the increase in food bank visits in a month.

I believe what you said, Mr. Hetherington, was 270,000 in Toronto alone per month, this month, as in February 2023. Is that correct?

6:50 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank

Neil Hetherington

It's for March.

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

It's in March so far, and we're only at—what is it—the 20th today.

6:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank

Neil Hetherington

At the end of March, we will have 270,000 visits.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Okay.

Mr. Hetherington, we have heard reports in the past that Canadians are in such dire straits that they not only are looking for food but have actually gone to food banks seeking medical assistance in dying. I know this isn't a problem with the cost of food. It's brought on by overall concerns with inflation and the cost of living in Canada.

My question for you is this: As food banks, do you have the resources? Are your staff trained to handle these types of situations? They are frontline staff. I'm just wondering how they would provide assistance or reassurance to those folks who are in such desperate situations that they're asking these questions at a food bank.

6:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank

Neil Hetherington

What I can tell you is that there is a heightened sense of concern right now in food banks, at least within the Daily Bread network. People are under stress, as you can imagine. They are wondering whether or not they can get their next meal or a meal for a child, so they are in a difficult, precarious position.

I don't have any anecdotal data to support the claim that there are individuals looking at MAID in terms of the situation they're in, but I can tell you that stress...and de-escalation is required in each of our food banks.

With regard to your question around resourcing, the answer is that we do have information and referrals. We stick in our lane, which is making sure that people get access to the food they need and to resources so that they don't need to come to a food bank. We have built up that program, and we'll continue to build up that program and refer individuals to programs that are suitable for them.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Thank you.

I'm just wondering. Have the demographics of the users who come to the food bank changed with the cost of living and inflationary crisis we're facing? I have talked to some folks at the food bank before who told me that it used to be a lot of seniors they would see at the food banks, and now they're seeing students and new Canadians coming to the food banks. Can you just briefly comment on that?

6:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank

Neil Hetherington

Absolutely. There are some surprising demographics among individuals who have to make use of food banks.

In Toronto, some 52% of food bank users have a post-secondary education. We don't normally think that is the case. I mentioned earlier that one in three has access to full-time employment. Again, if you played by the rules—you got an education and you got a job—that does not mean you no longer need a food bank.

Certainly, in speaking with my colleague, Meghan Nicholls, at The Mississauga Food Bank, and in my experience at the Daily Bread Food Bank, I will tell you that we are seeing an influx in the number of new Canadians coming to food banks. That is a significant challenge for us right now.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Thank you.

I just have one last quick question.

Are you registered federally to lobby?

6:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Daily Bread Food Bank

Neil Hetherington

Yes, we are.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Thank you very much.

Ms. Nikkel, you mentioned in some of your comments that the increase in food cost is a huge problem. We saw the cost of gas go up another 14¢ as part of a carbon tax, and you mentioned in previous testimony to this committee that the supply chain and cost of transportation is the largest challenge to providing food rescue and redistribution supports.

Is the increase in costs with the carbon tax a concern for Second Harvest's ability to afford to do business? Should there be reasonable exemptions made to the carbon tax to ease the burden on food producers and perhaps even food charities?

6:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Second Harvest Canada

Lori Nikkel

That's such a great question, but I have to be honest. Second Harvest is an environmental organization, so we're about food waste and trying to make sure that it doesn't go into landfill.

I think there are lots of levers that we could maybe pull. I don't want to say that's one of them, to be honest, because we are looking at it from an environmental lens as well as a food insecurity lens.

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Okay.

As a charity, I know you have many avenues for funding, but access to sufficient capital is always a concern. We know Second Harvest has received government support. I'm just wondering how much you're currently receiving and how much is needed to grow to make a difference.