Agriculture Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Greg Northey]

No, we haven't received any reason for why it hasn't happened.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Another issue you brought up was the possibility of a trade commissioner. The United States—more than a year ago and maybe up to two years ago now when we first started to see this and you probably were raising section 49—appointed a trade czar, a supply chain czar, and implemented some very heavy fines to the shipping companies specifically if they were not playing fair with shipping containers, for example.

Have you seen that have an impact? Has the shipping issue been more intense or more acute in Canada compared to the United States as a result of the steps that the United States took compared to our not having undertaken a similar action?

[Greg Northey]

We have seen improvements in the U.S. Obviously their supply chains are equally problematic, and we hear about issues at port. One of the things that has happened is that the shipping lines have recognized that they'd be under scrutiny, both by the agency and Mr. Pocari in the U.S. He was appointed to that position.

What we've seen in Canada, in fact, is that, if we're looking to receive containers, say, to go through Montreal, the priority is given to you as shippers to utilize containers through our Canadian ports...in the U.S., so they have more ready access to export containers. I think part of the reason is that there is so much more scrutiny on the shipping lines in the U.S.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks.

I'm going to shift to the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

As a result of the United States having the shipping czar and now Canada not being able to get our products to market, we're seeing shipping lanes being diverted from Canada to pick up products in the United States, because we are losing our reputation as a trusted trading partner. This is not a new issue. This is certainly something that's been going on.

To Mr. Guy, I know that, in the fall or when it was announced that there would be the vaccination mandates on international truckers, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce strongly encouraged the government to delay that decision. Of course it did not, and we've seen a result of that.

Has the chamber or any of your members provided the government with any scientific evidence or data that would show that the trucking mandate was not necessary, that this was not a step that needed to be taken?

[Robin Guy]

We have a truck driver shortage in the country, and I think that's something that we found out through conversations with our members. Adding new stresses has the possibility to create problems with the supply chain. With the rules implemented in Canada and the United States, we are focused on increasing awareness. In terms of the specific data, I think some of our members did share data, yes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Have you had any consultation or insights with the government in terms of a potential of interprovincial trucking mandates that we now hear are a possibility?

[Robin Guy]

No. I think most of our conversation right now at this point is just focused on aggressive public health information and ensuring that vaccine efficacy is understood.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Mr. Guy, has there been a negative economic impact on your members as a result of the trucking mandate? What would be the impact on an interprovincial trucking mandate if that were to be implemented?

[Robin Guy]

I think we have a truck driver shortage in the country right now. I think that's going to be something that continues to be an issue.

Again, right now, I think we're focused on focusing on that increasing awareness of the rules that are in place right now.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Have your members given you any data? I guess my point here is that we have a very fragile supply chain as it is, and when you add these obstacles or burdens upon it, it's certainly going to be damaging—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Barlow, I apologize. We're at six minutes.

Thank you.

Mr. Turnbull, you have six minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for being here today. We appreciate your testimony and your time.

I'm going to focus first on the Retail Council of Canada.

Mr. McLinton, I have a couple of questions for you.

I think that unfortunately we've heard a narrative for the past few weeks, mostly from the opposition party members—or some of the members there—that the grocery store shelves are empty and this is caused by the federal government's vaccine requirements for cross-border truckers. The Retail Council is quoted in an article published on February 16 as saying that “the council's grocery members have reported that 90 to 94 percent of products that are supposed to be on shelves are actually currently available.”

There still seem to be individuals in the opposition benches who are pushing this, I would say dangerous, narrative that Canadians are going to go hungry. Can you confirm the quote from the council, published just yesterday, about the high percentage of products still available on Canadian grocery store shelves?

[Jason McLinton]

Grocery retail is a highly resilient industry. There are a number of pressures, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, that members are facing. Certainly, the blockades have been a major contributor recently, but there are a number of pressures, so to point to any one of them to say that this is the one thing that is causing the challenges I think is inaccurate. There are a number of challenges facing the industry.

At the best of times, our members are never at a 100% fill rate. It's probably closer to 98% or something like that. A couple of weeks ago, we were hearing that for the fill rates, depending on where you were in the country, maybe the lowest we were hearing of was in the lower 80% range, so we're probably at around the 90% range.

It's a very resilient industry. What our members need to do is to be able to do their jobs, and that's by having reliable points of entry, and that's by avoiding unnecessary regulation and whatever the government can do to lower inflationary pressures. If these things are in place, then retailers are highly resilient.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I note that Michelle Wasylyshen, the spokesperson for the Retail Council of Canada, said recently, “There is no threat to the overall robustness of the food supply system in Canada.”

I think it's also important to remember, from my perspective, that there's a reputable professor from the University of British Columbia Faculty of Land and Food Systems, James Vercammen, who said recently that, if anything, panicking and hoarding might make the shortages last even longer.

I wondered if you think that it's actually kind of irresponsible for people in leadership positions to be scaring Canadians into potentially panicking and hoarding food and other supplies. Couldn't this exacerbate the challenges we're already experiencing, Mr. McLinton?

[Jason McLinton]

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull. I guess there are two parts to that question.

In terms of panic buying, that does not help. We saw that early on in the crisis with food. We saw it with other products; I think everybody heard about toilet paper and things like that. That not only does not help, it wasn't necessary, because grocery retailers are very resilient, have very good relationships with their suppliers, did whatever they had to do and continue to do that in order to adjust.

I think the real issue here, though, is being able to allow retailers to operate in the environment that they're best at in order to be able to do their business, and it's by doing all the things I mentioned. Any assistance is helpful. There are many pressures, and so any areas where the government can assist will alleviate some of the pressure on supply chains.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I appreciated your recommendations in your opening remarks.

I want to step over to the Chamber of Commerce, and talk about the impact these blockades had on our supply chains. They've certainly interrupted the flow of goods across the border.

Mr. Guy, could you speak to the costs? I'm told the Ambassador Bridge has over $300 million worth of goods crossing over the border. Is that correct?

[Robin Guy]

The blockades have caused serious economic and reputational consequences. I stress the reputational consequence for years ahead. Not only was it a strike against the rule of law but it also undermined Canada's international reputation. Our members, who we're talking to, want to be able to use the critical infrastructure to get their goods to and from markets.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I wonder if it would be safe to say that the illegal blockades were far more damaging on supply chains than the cross-border vaccination requirements.

What would you say to that, Mr. Guy?

[Robin Guy]

I don't think I'd be in a position to comment on that.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

We learned from the Minister of Transport that there was very little impact on cross-border trucking traffic. “No measurable impact” is what he's been quoted saying. If vaccine requirements didn't actually change the number of trucks going across the border, then they didn't have a noticeable impact per se on—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I am sorry, Mr. Turnbull and Mr. Guy, but the six minutes are up.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I'd like to begin by thanking the witnesses for being with us today and for offering their testimony. We are grateful to them.

Mr. McLinton, there is a lot of talk about labour and foreign workers in the agricultural sector. The retail sector, which you represent, also has a lot of labour issues, but the foreign worker issue doesn't really apply to it.

What government measures do you need to help you meet your labour force needs quickly?

[Jason McLinton]

Labour has definitely been a challenge from our perspective. Some of our members do avail themselves of the temporary foreign worker program, so some movement in that regard would be helpful.

What it comes down to is this. There are a number of pressures on the system right now impacting labour, not the least of which is a lack of immigration in Canada. We're in a pandemic. There are a number of things that could be done. We're looking forward to seeing that as well as.... The primary thing would be immigration.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Do you have any concrete measures for people who are already in the country?

For example, would providing a tax credit for people aged 65 and over who want to continue working help your sector?

[Jason McLinton]

It would be interesting to engage in a discussion around that, but what would be most helpful would be the recommendations I mentioned in my opening remarks, so that retailers can do what they do best, and go about doing business.