Agriculture Committee on May 17th, 2023

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you.

Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine has provided all kinds of challenges. This came up earlier, on fertilizer.

What steps has AAFC undertaken to make Canadian sources of fertilizer more available? Particularly in eastern Canada and Atlantic Canada, on my own farm, over my lifetime, I've actually used more Russian and Belarusian potash than potash from Saskatchewan, for economic reasons.

[An hon. member]

It's shameful.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

It's shameful. I agree with my colleague.

What steps has AAFC taken to help Canadians, particularly with respect to fertilizers, on the east coast?

[Stefanie Beck]

It's an important question. Thank you for raising it.

This is something that's extremely important, not only to farmers in the east, but in the west as well. We have been in conversation with the industry ever since the tariffs were announced, to ensure there would be enough supply for this year and indeed ongoing. We have been informed, just for the record, that there is ample supply for this coming year.

What we've seen is a shift in behaviour as well. We are confident that going forward there will be enough for Canadian farmers, not only in the west but in the east as well.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you very much, Mr. Epp, and thank you, Ms. Beck.

We'll now switch over to the Liberals. Ms. Taylor Roy, you have six minutes, please.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you again to our witnesses. Congratulations, Ms. Beck, on your position.

I have some questions around the price on pollution, the agricultural climate solutions program and the impact those have had on our farms and the emissions that have been coming from the agricultural sector. We have a carrot-and-stick approach here in Canada, where we have the price on pollution, but we also have this great agricultural climate solutions program, worth about $4 billion, to help farmers adapt.

We've been hearing a lot about the price on pollution, how it's going to hurt farmers and what it's going to cost, but there's been no incorporation of behavioural change on the part of farmers, as Mr. Turnbull was mentioning earlier. We just heard from Minister Guilbeault that we've had a 53-megatonne reduction in greenhouse gases, which is amazing. That's the equivalent of 11 million cars on the road. It wasn't broken down by sector.

My question is for anyone. Do we have any estimates of how much greenhouse gases have been coming down in the agriculture sector or what the projections are, given both the price on pollution and the agricultural climate solutions program that we have in place?

[Stefanie Beck]

We have been very heartened by the changes we have seen, in particular in behaviour. The programs that have been in place have been deliberately designed to target changes in behaviour. We know, though, that Canadian farmers have been doing a fabulous job on this for, frankly, decades, in different parts of the country. What we're seeking is greater adoption of those techniques more broadly to see an increase in the kinds of reductions you have been mentioning, with which we're very pleased.

There are discussions right now around the sustainable agriculture strategy. We're in the process now of consultations across the country. The differences among small farmers and the kinds of crops they grow or the livestock they raise are the kinds of things that will make a difference in how we make the final design for our strategy.

Already we've seen differences in the kinds of approaches farmers are taking. We're spending a lot of money, as I think you know, on research and development, again, depending on the region and the kind of crop that's being grown or the livestock, and then a whole other section of work is being done on adoption. We have all kinds of other incentives to procure things like biodigesters, which also make a difference.

We're very comfortable that we are headed in the right direction. I have actually seen a number on what the GHG emissions could be, but I don't have it with me right now. I'd be happy to table that later.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

That would be great. Thank you.

It sounds like you're fairly confident that even though farmers have been doing this for ages, a greater adaptation of these techniques is going to further decrease the greenhouse gas emissions from this sector.

[Stefanie Beck]

If I may elaborate a bit, from a research perspective, what we're seeing, for instance, is that as new seeds are developed that are more drought-resistant—or these days, frankly, that can deal with drought and flood in the same year, unfortunately—we're making big progress there.

For instance, on something like vertical farming, we know that seed companies are developing—and this might sound a little odd—shorter crops that can be grown in different ways. This would help reduce GHG emissions and enable them to produce higher yields from a smaller acreage.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

You may not have this number either, but I am wondering.... Within the department, have there been any estimates done on the cost of these climate events to the agricultural sector?

The droughts we saw across the Prairies, the flooding in B.C., the east coast.... There have been so many things happening.

Have there been any estimates done on what this has cost our agricultural sector and what it has done to our farmers?

[Stefanie Beck]

It has been terrible and devastating for our farmers.

Perhaps, to give two relatively straightforward numbers, we know that we spent $600 million in Alberta after the droughts of 2021. That's one province alone, and one terrible, catastrophic event.

For hurricane Fiona, we're looking at $300 million, at least, for agriculture alone.

These are big numbers, and we're not expecting them to diminish any time soon, unfortunately. That means, though, that we're looking at more mitigation and what it is that we can provide to farmers in terms of innovation, be it in equipment, practices or seed, that will make a difference in the future.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

That's great. It would be really interesting to see some of these numbers broken down in terms of the impact on a 5,000-acre farm to see what the costs are of the damage that's happening and what it's costing our government, our agricultural sector and our farmers, as well as the change in behaviour.

Thank you very much.

[Stefanie Beck]

Thank you.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I have 30 seconds.

I just want to thank you for the work you're doing on this.

I think having some of these facts and some of these numbers around.... We can't make projections without putting assumptions in.

I think some of the assumptions have been that behaviour is not going to change among our farmers. We're seeing that our farmers have always been at the forefront and have done so much, and they are continuing to do that, so I'd really like to see some of the numbers around how their behaviour is changing, how that is impacting and how both the carrot and the stick are contributing to this change in behaviour of the farmers.

They're at the forefront of climate impact, as we always say, so it's going to be benefiting them in terms of the climate events. Hopefully, we can manage them and mitigate them as well.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you, Ms. Taylor Roy. I appreciate that.

Colleagues, we have Ms. Collins back. We're going to suspend for a second here and test Ms. Collins' sound again to make sure that she is able to join us.

I will let the clerk deal with that and test her sound. Give us one second.

Excellent. I'm glad that worked out.

Now we will go to Mr. Perron for six minutes, please.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank the four witnesses for staying with us so abidingly.

I'll continue where I left off. We were talking about genome editing. I did like the end of the minister's reply, when she said that if a problem arose, action would be taken. What worries the community is that we don't know how we're going to ensure that the database is complete and that proper monitoring is being done.

So you say you'll take action if there's an issue, but can you give us more details on the timeline? How often will consultations take place between industry and the committee, among other things? I'd like you to keep your answer brief.

[Stefanie Beck]

You would like me to keep my answer brief, is that right?

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Yes, because we only have six minutes.

[Stefanie Beck]

The frequency has not been determined yet. I know that during consultations surrounding the implementation of the upcoming process, they took place every single week. I don't think they'll be as frequent in the weeks and months to come, but that will be determined as needed.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

At any rate, we're counting on your rigour and prudence.

Earlier, Mr. Lehoux asked about the closure of the Olymel plant in Vallée-Jonction. Over the course of several studies, the committee has been able to observe significant concentration in the sectors, particularly the slaughtering sector, but in the processing sector in general.

Can we envision additional support for smaller processing units that would be better distributed across the regions and could constitute a kind of ancillary network capable of absorbing this kind of shock?

Have you had discussions on that?

[Stefanie Beck]

We had just such a discussion in recent weeks. My colleagues have been speaking directly with business representatives.

I know the companies have considered the impact this will have on the region, and I know they've already started talking to producers in other provinces, for example, to accommodate them at different plants. As we know, the decision to close the plant wasn't made overnight, because people were aware of the consequences it would have.

I myself spoke with my colleagues at Farm Credit Canada to see what more we could do to lend a hand. Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada doesn't have a specific program to help the industry recover. However, there are Canadian banks that are perfectly capable of doing so, since they have the authority and mandate to do so.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Very well. We'll work on that.

I would now like to come back to the Ukraine issue.

When the minister answered a question about renewing the order, I got the sense that she was somewhat sympathetic to the cause. However, as she said, she's not the one making the decision.

Madam Deputy Minister, which department makes the decision to renew the order?

[Stefanie Beck]

As far as I know, it's the Department of Finance.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

We know where we need to apply pressure.

We often hear virtuous rhetoric about climate change. However, when I look at the figures, I realize that they're not very high. For example, an amount of $87,390,000 is being proposed for the farm action for climate plan. This number may seem high, but it really isn't, since it applies to all regions of Canada.

Are you planning further investments? Will there be other application cycles?

[Stefanie Beck]

According to the data I have, the amount is $1.5 billion for just two years. That is a significant amount. In fact, in the three months since I became deputy minister, the number of applications has increased. We've already renewed one of the programs and added $200 million to it.