Agriculture Committee on May 31st, 2023

[Dr. Parthi Muthukumarasamy]

As I mentioned in the opening remarks, we are reviewing the call for information and scientific data we have solicited. We have received over 55 scientific documents, publications, opinions and comments. We are reviewing those. In the next eight weeks, we will make a determination on whether we will go ahead and proceed with a new risk assessment or not.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

As my colleague, Mr. Viersen, mentioned in talking to our American colleagues—so maybe I'll ask Mr. Winters first—as the CFIA here mentioned, we're importing bees from Ukraine, Italy, New Zealand, Australia and other countries. If we really want to keep a lid on importing pests, would it not make more sense to have a North American strategy where it's easier to keep monitoring those diseases or those pests, rather than import bees from farther reaches of the globe?

[Daniel Winter]

I think it's very important, actually, to work that way. In the United States, I think we are set up to inspect some of these companies that could potentially ship bees into Canada, and there is no reason that we couldn't meet the requirements that are needed to enter Canada. I think it's a no-brainer, as far as I am concerned, to try to work within North America.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Mr. McKinney, what are your thoughts?

[Ted McKinney]

The answer is yes. We have been looking and looking for more ways to interface with your ministers of agriculture at the provincial level. I think there is already a healthy relationship at the federal level, and that needs to continue.

However, this is something we would welcome and embrace, and in fact, we might even talk about it when we gather in Saskatchewan in about a month or two.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll cede the rest of my time to Mr. Lehoux.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food representative.

Some witnesses told us that they were having trouble ensuring succession in their beekeeping business, because the programs were not tailored specifically to beekeeping and beekeepers and did not encourage the younger generation to go into beekeeping. We were asked whether the AgriInvest program could be adjusted to provide more assistance for the next generation.

What are your thoughts on that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Pernal, I believe that question was directed to you at the Department of Agriculture, unless I'm wrong.

[Dr. Stephen Pernal]

Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada is a big government department. I work for the science and technology branch, so I can speak authoritatively to technical answers with bees but not AgriStability programs. I'm afraid I can't specifically answer your question. You'd have to go to some of my colleagues in other branches of the department.

It is a valid concern. Certainly success in agriculture, including beekeeping, is important to the country in terms of continuing these operations.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

My next question is for the Pest Management Regulatory Agency.

We know that research to improve genetics is important, and that everything is going to depend on that.

Dr. Hart, what progress or advancements have been made in genetic research? In my opinion, Canada needs to do more research to develop this sector in a significant way.

[Dr. Connie Hart]

I would respectfully point to my colleague Steve Pernal, who would be better able to answer that question.

[Dr. Stephen Pernal]

That question I can answer. Thank you for your interest.

Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada has been involved in projects looking at developing markers for breeding bees. These would be markers based on the proteins expressed by honeybees or markers in their genome and genetics. We've been working with many labs across Canada in developing markers for better selectively breeding bees. We have been successful in concluding some of these projects and trying to help introduce them to the industry.

We're currently involved in projects with our university collaborators to also look at markers of stress, which may help us more to real-time diagnose what's actually happening in a bee colony, rather than looking at a dead colony and trying to figure out what happened.

I would say that there is progress on this front. I think the aim certainly is to move bee breeding more into the realm of other major animal systems like cattle or swine. Through AAFC and our collaborators at Canadian universities, we have worked on marker selection projects for bees.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much to you both. We're 45 seconds over the time.

Ms. Valdez, we'll go over to you for five minutes.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for joining us today.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I'll direct my questions to Mr. Winter.

Earlier, you mentioned how bees will mix chemicals within their hives. What measures do you have in place in the U.S. to limit the spread of pests and diseases affecting bees?

[Daniel Winter]

We have inspections that vary from state to state. Some states, of course, work harder to inspect the bees.

About 20 years ago, the United States government started a pollen analysis program in which we sample hives yearly to determine what chemicals are coming into the hive. There were two or three in the pollen 20 years ago, and now there are upwards of 20 or more.

It's important to understand that those particular chemicals are not showing up in honey. They are showing up in the bee bread with which they feed larva. It's not a risk to humans per se, so they're not looking at it real close. I think it's a bigger problem as far as bee health. It definitely needs more research and more science, for sure.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

You just touched on my second question, which is around what measures are put in place by your government, or even industry in the U.S., to prevent or at least track movement of bee packages between states or between the groups of states when the bees are travelling.

[Daniel Winter]

I can only speak for my own particular business, but I get inspected in all three states that I go to. I get inspected in New York state and in Florida, and I get inspected when my bees go to California. I think it's more rigorous than most people understand. To my understanding, 29 states have some sort of registration and inspection program. It's higher now, because I know that New York state has started a registration program.

Since the pollinator protection plans were enabled, the states have have done a better job of following pollinators in general than they have in the past.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll direct my next questions to the Department of Health.

We know your mandate that PMRA applies modern, evidence-based, scientific approaches to assess whether the health and environmental risks of pesticides are acceptable or whether the products have value.

Can you elaborate on your scientific-based approach—we've talked about it a few times today—and whether our current regulations in Canada need to be strengthened to support that or to maybe limit any risks for health and the environment?

[Frédéric Bissonnette]

I'll ask my colleague to talk about the risk assessment, and then I can supplement afterwards.

[Dr. Connie Hart]

Sure.

Are you asking specifically about the bee risk assessment or in general?

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

It's about the bee risk assessment.

[Dr. Connie Hart]

As mentioned, we put a new risk assessment framework in place in 2014, and we developed that jointly with the U.S. EPA and the California Department of Pesticide Regulation.

That risk assessment is done for all pesticides that would be used where there would be bee exposure. That means all outdoor-use pesticides as well as greenhouse-use pesticides. We use the framework for every type of pesticide.

We have an initial screening-level risk assessment, for which we now require more robust data. It includes a number of laboratory studies for adult and larval bees and acute and chronic risk. It looks at both contact and dietary exposure—contact being if the bee would be sprayed or if it's exposed to dried residues on plants, and the dietary exposure is through pollen and nectar. In the initial screening, we have a way to estimate the expected exposure in the pollen and nectar from the application rate at which the pesticide is used.

That is the initial screen that is done for all pesticides. If a potential risk is identified, we can also ask for higher-tier data, which, as I mentioned before, includes tunnel studies, feeding studies, field studies and more realistic information on the exposure data—so that's the levels of pesticide in pollen and nectar that are actually measured, instead of the conservative estimate that's done initially.

We also consider other factors such as agronomic considerations. Is the crop something that is attractive to pollinators and that pollinators will be foraging on or, for example, is it something that's harvested before it blooms so there will not be pollinator exposure through pollen and nectar?

We look at the risk mitigation options as we're determining whether or not risk is acceptable. Is there risk mitigation that we can put in place, such as restricting timing during bloom or prebloom for different scenarios? For seed treatments, do we have to address dust considerations when planting treated seed, for example?

The risk assessment method we have now is very robust. It looks at both adults and larvae. With larvae, we consider the exposure when adults bring pollen and nectar back to the hive. We look at that. We also take into account native pollinators. We consider not only honeybees but also native bees, such as bumblebees and solitary bees, in our assessment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Ms. Valdez.

Thank you, Ms. Hart, for that very robust description of all the work you guys do.

Colleagues, that brings us to the end. I do want to take one quick opportunity to ask a question with CFIA and PMRA here.

Certainly when I deal with my agricultural producers at home in Nova Scotia, one of the things they talk about often is competitiveness. I don't know if there's an actual provision within your legislative statute that talks about that, but I think about things like Bill S-6, which is before the House right now and which, I believe, allows and opens the door for both of your agencies to start considering foreign recognition.

Can you tell this committee what is being done through CFIA, whether on crop protection products or certain seeds, when there are demonstrably strong scientific processes from other jurisdictions, to create expedited pathways in Canada?

Mr. Bissonnette, you talked, for example, about how you really have to wait until someone actually comes to apply to Canada, but the evidence that I think many of our colleagues would have at this committee is that many major manufacturers would start in the United States or they'd start in Europe—they'd start in larger markets—before they would even get to Canada, and then we would still have a couple-year process by the time it landed in our lap.

How do we close that gap for competitiveness? Are there ways in which we can use the existing science of other agencies that we trust to expedite our own processes? What work are you guys doing in that domain?

I'll start with CFIA and then go to PMRA.

[Dr. Parthi Muthukumarasamy]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not qualified to talk about seeds, but in general CFIA has excellent regulatory co-operation with many other jurisdictions that do assessments similar to CFIA's.

We also have international standard-setting bodies. For food, it is Codex Alimentarius. For animal health, it's the World Organisation for Animal Health, and for plants, it's IPPC. We work through those organizations but also bilaterally and also with like-minded partners in terms of exchanging regulatory practices, in terms of their assessments. We pool the assessments and share best practices among ourselves on a very regular basis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Okay.

Is there anything from PMRA?