Agriculture Committee on Oct. 5th, 2023

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you, Mr. Gobeil. I'm sorry. You're past time. We'll try to get some more information during the questions.

Now we will go to Dr. Rastogi for five minutes, please.

[Dr. Toolika Rastogi, Senior Manager, Policy and Research, Humane Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll let Ms. Martellani begin, please. Thank you.

[Erin Martellani, Campaign Manager, Animal Advocacy, Montreal SPCA, Humane Canada]

Thank you for the invitation to appear regarding Bill C‑275.

Founded in 1869, the Montreal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, or SPCA, was Canada's first animal welfare organization, and it's now the most active and influential animal protection organization in Quebec. In addition to being a shelter, the Montreal SPCA is a law enforcement agency. Our Investigations Division officers are responsible for enforcing provincial animal protection laws.

However, our officers' authority to intervene is limited to pets. Animals used for agricultural purposes no longer fall under their jurisdiction. So the only recourse for our officers, who are also special constables who can address complaints about farm animals, is to turn to the Criminal Code provisions dealing with crimes against animals.

Despite this situation, the Investigations Division has received many farm animal abuse complaints from whistleblowers over the years. Some of them have actually led to criminal investigations and, in some cases, even convictions.

The Montreal SPCA does not support Bill C‑275 for a number of reasons, the main one being that it could undermine the work of our Investigations Division by taking away the only tool that lets us receive reports of animal abuse from the agricultural sector, a self-regulated industry that demonstrates very little transparency as it is, and offers extremely restricted access.

It would be a mistake to pass this bill because, right now, the vast majority of Canadian provinces, including Quebec, don't regulate how farm animals are treated. In addition, we have no government agency doing proactive inspections of these facilities to ensure animal welfare.

The Montreal SPCA obviously does not condone unlawful behaviour, but if distressed producers wonder why they are being targeted by activists, it is in large part due to their industry's lack of regulation and transparency.

In this context, further reducing access to livestock facilities and the ability to document violations committed therein, as proposed by this bill, will not only harm the millions of vulnerable animals that pass through them, but it will also harm producers and undermine the overall credibility of an industry that should instead be striving to address societal concerns.

I will now give the floor to Toolika Rastogi.

[Dr. Toolika Rastogi]

Thank you.

Humane Canada is proud to be here speaking alongside our member, the oldest SPCA in Canada.

We represent humane societies and SPCAs across the country, many of which enforce animal protection law.

Humane Canada is not an activist organization, nor do we campaign to end animal agriculture, yet we are very concerned about the welfare of farmed animals. We work collaboratively with industry, including Dairy Farmers of Canada and the Canadian Pork Council, who are here today, as well as governments and other stakeholders at NFACC, the National Farm Animal Care Council, to improve standards of care for animals on farms.

Let me be clear that these standards are not legally binding in most of the country. The government is not inspecting farms to ensure they are meeting welfare standards. Violations of welfare standards and cruelty laws are brought to the attention of enforcement through complaints, often together with undercover evidence, because there is little transparency.

Why don't Canadians have trust in our system of animal agriculture? It's because of this lack of transparency and public oversight in the system. Rather than applying an approach that is a bit of a band-aid to bring new measures and harsh penalties to deter trespassing and whistle-blowing and to further diminish transparency, we feel that what is needed is increased transparency, accountability and oversight.

Ultimately, we need to address the root of the problem. It's not that people don't understand how animals are farmed; they understand that our current system of farming is highly problematic. The predominant system involves massive numbers of animals in a barn, and that cannot provide for natural living conditions for the animals. They cannot be easily tended to in a manner that allows for their good health and welfare.

Furthermore, the intensity and scale of animals pose serious risks for infectious disease susceptibility and transmission, as we have seen, tragically, with the avian influenza pandemic.

Given the serious disease risks, as well as climate, biodiversity and pollution crises, we urgently need to reimagine our system of food production in this country to one that provides good conditions for animals and is environmentally sustainable. Such a system that's in harmony with animals and that doesn't devalue the earth is also better for the psyche of those in the farming community. It is the UN-recognized One Health and One Welfare approach.

Public support is needed for those in the farming sector to transition to such a system in order to provide for their physical and mental health, well-being and good livelihood.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you, Doctor. We appreciate that.

Now, colleagues, we do have Mr. Binnendyk, who now has sound that is okay. We have about a minute and a half left.

Are you okay if we let Mr. Binnendyk give his testimony to wrap up for the Pork Council?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair]

Mr. Binnendyk, I'm going to give you about a minute and a half, if that's okay.

[Ray Binnendyk, Member, Owner of Excelsior Hog Farm Ltd., Canadian Pork Council]

This is a normal day at the office for most of you, but this is not something I enjoy much.

My name is Ray Binnendyk, from Excelsior Hog Farm in Abbotsford, B.C.

We have a family-run farm that my dad started in 1977, after he moved from Holland. I am one of the owner-operators, along with two brothers. We each have four kids. We are a close family that you will find, on a Sunday morning, at opa and oma's for soup and buns. Farming to us is not just a job; it's a lifestyle.

I was asked to be here to voice my thoughts on Bill C-275. This bill is very important to the future of the agricultural industry.

For those of you who don't know, we have had our farm trespassed on a number of times in the last four years. First there were hidden cameras installed. Then there was an occupation, during which 48 people camped out in our barn for a day while 150 protesters stood on the road. Just a few months ago we actually found three cameras again.

Having protesters break into our barn, install cameras and spread false information on the Internet about our family farm was an invasion of our privacy and a deeply distressing experience. It felt like a violation of not only our property but also our sense of security and trust within our community. Although all our family and friends saw through the lies, it did take a few years before we stopped getting the one-finger salutes while driving pigs to market.

The false accusations online had a significant emotional impact on our family. Because of our close-knit family, we kept each other's heads up, but I'm sure this would not be the case for everyone.

Canadian farmers take pride in what they do, and they work hard to put food on the table. Our industry has many guidelines for animal health and care, which we all follow.

Biosecurity is also a very big part of the health of animals and food security. There are—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Mr. Binnendyk, I'm going to have to cut you off there. I gave you a bit of extra time, but I'm sure you'll have some opportunities during the questions from our members.

I'm sure we all have days when this isn't our favourite place to be either.

[Ray Binnendyk]

No.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

I understand where you're coming from, but we appreciate your doing it.

[Ray Binnendyk]

No problem.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

We're going to start with the first round of questioning. We will go to Monsieur Lehoux

You have six minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank the witnesses for being with us this morning.

I stayed in my seat, but alarm bells still went off in my mind when I heard some of the comments made by our witnesses this morning, particularly when they talked about the lack of transparency in the industry. As a former dairy farmer myself, I find it a bit odd to suggest such a thing.

My first question is for Mr. Roy, who represents pork producers.

You talked about the importance of biosecurity and the number of checks you have to do when someone comes into your facility.

Could you tell us more about the impact of biosecurity, with regard to the various points you raised in your remarks?

[René Roy]

Thank you.

I'll start with a fact. We're told that the industry applies these measures on a voluntary basis. That's true for the industry, but these measures are imposed on producers.

When the industry sets a standard, it becomes a mandatory model for producers to follow. I think it's important to put this voluntary nature of the measures into perspective. We, as an industry, are taking charge and being proactive in the way we develop our code. We're developing it with various stakeholders, including Humane Canada, which has a seat at the code development table. These practices are established and become mandatory for producers; otherwise, they can't market their products through our Verified Canadian Pork^TM certification program.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Roy.

Along the same lines, let's talk about the number of visitors allowed on your farms, since the current version of Bill C‑275 excludes whistleblowers, it must be said. A lot of people visit your farms. Can you tell us how many people visit your farms, suppliers and others?

Many people who come to your farms could sound the alarm other than those who might show up and seek unauthorized entry.

[René Roy]

Absolutely.

A number of other allies help us in our everyday work, particularly in terms of biosecurity. I'm thinking of veterinarians and suppliers of various services, who also visit farms. So we interact with those suppliers who come and can observe practices every day.

Then there is our whole certification system, which imposes rules on all producers who market the product—they are audited regularly.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Roy.

I have a question for Mr. Binnendyk.

Your testimony was very touching. You talked about your family business. We have the same business model back home. We know how close family ties are. We can imagine the impact your trespasser had on your entire family's mental health.

Can you describe it in a few seconds, Mr. Binnendyk?

[Ray Binnendyk]

The impact on our family is definitely something. We hold each other together. If you have family and you have friends, you have a unit. I think it would be very hard if this happened to an individual who didn't have the support system that we have. We keep each other's heads up.

I don't wish this on anyone. That's the only reason I'm here. It's because the experience we had was not fun.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you very much. That's really very helpful.

My next question is for Mr. Wiens or Mr. Gobeil.

How does it work for Dairy Farmers of Canada? Dairy farms see a lot of action. I used to own one, so I know they get a lot of traffic.

I understand that you support Bill C‑275. How do you see this? It has some significance. You certainly do get a lot of visitors on your farms, both guests and suppliers. These individuals must always respect biosecurity on your farms.

Mr. Gobeil or Mr. Wiens, could you elaborate on that?

[David Wiens]

I can begin to respond to that, and I'll ask Daniel to follow up, but certainly we're very careful about who comes onto the farm, especially into the barns where the cattle are, and wherever the cattle are, because of the concern for biosecurity.

For us, it's very important, and we do have those extra sets of eyes coming in. We work very closely with our animal nutritionist, who comes into the barns on a regular basis to look at the cattle, because we're looking for a perfect condition for the cows so that they're not underconditioned or overconditioned. We have the veterinarians coming in on a regular basis to do herd health checks.

We work as a team. The team includes people who are not on the farm and, of course, there's proAction, whereby our farm is audited on a regular basis to ensure we are meeting the requirements of the assurance program.

Daniel, did you want to add something?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

I'm sorry, Mr. Gobeil; that's the time. Maybe you'll have a chance to add to that in the next round.

Now we'll switch to Mr. MacDonald for six minutes, please.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to go back to Ms. Rastogi.

In your opening comments, you said that we have to change the way we're farming or something to that effect. I've been around farms all my life. My family has farmed. Here is a quote: “Farmlands provide food and cover for wildlife, help control flooding, protect wetlands and watersheds and maintain air quality.” Do you agree with that?

[Dr. Toolika Rastogi]

Thank you for the question.

I think all of those benefits to the environment are feasible in an environmentally sustainable farming set-up operation. The majority of farms in Canada are highly intensive operations with thousands of animals, often indoors, and a lot of impact in terms of pollution, in terms of other impacts on the environment and certainly on animal welfare, as well as, I would argue, on the people who are working in that environment.

While it can have those benefits, I think we need to improve our system to make it less intensive and to be able to identify ways of improving the interactions with the environment and with animals.

[Heath MacDonald, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Personally, I think farmers have come a long way in the last number of years, so I somewhat disagree with your opening remarks, but that's okay.

Look, we're here. I think we're all on the same page in relevance to farming. We want the right legislation, basically. I was a part of Bill 120 on Prince Edward Island. I was a member of that government when we made amendments to the act, which we spoke to earlier before this session.

I want to go to the dairy farm industry. I have a number of dairy farms in my riding. Given the complex nature of modern milk machinery and technology, I want to go one step further here and ask if there's any requirement in this bill relevant to a cyber-attack, since we're dealing with multi-million-dollar equipment that provides a better way of farming for dairy farms. I just want to see if there are any thoughts relevant to how that could possibly be built into something like this bill.

Mr. Wiens, can you reply?