Agriculture Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Are they breaking any laws by CFIA standards?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

We will determine that when they get here. We have witnesses who are coming with various degrees of opinions.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

In the actual wording of your bill, you're saying that horses are in cramped conditions, are uncomfortable and can become wounded, injured and that there are fatalities. But clearly, the international and Canadian laws in terms of the transportation regulations in place are being exceeded. CFIA is there inspecting every single load before it is "wheels up", to use your wording. They're not breaking any current laws, which I find interesting. Why are you bringing this bill forward if it really is about air transportation?

Since the last time the rules were adjusted in 2014, how many horse fatalities have occurred in air transportation specifically? How many fatalities?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

How many fatalities have occurred? I know for the science we are going to bring people who can explain. I don't have that—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Zero. It's zero fatalities since 2014. Do you know the frequency—

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I actually have data that says there were fatalities in 2015 and 2017, I believe.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

According to our own Canadian statistics and the CFIA, the answer is zero.

What is the frequency of injured animals on air transportation? Do you know?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I have that number somewhere.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

It is less than 1%.

How many stakeholders did you consult with? Have you consulted with the CFIA, yes or no?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Yes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Have you consulted with the Canada Border Services Agency?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I believe we are in touch with them as well.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

What about the Air Line Pilots Association?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

We have reached out to them.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

You reached out, so have you consulted with them?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I have not heard back from them.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

You have not.

For the CBSA, you've reached out, but have they answered back?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

We have. My staff, I believe, talked to them as well.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

About close to half of the breeders for.... You said this is a minor industry. It's minor maybe for you, but not for the folks who are actually in this industry. It's actually a massive part of their livelihood.

I want to read a portion of a letter from members of the Métis Nation of Alberta, which reads,

There has been no consultation with indigenous producers and people on the plan to ban the export of live horses. Banning the export of meat horses would be extremely effective if the federal government would like to again shackle indigenous farmers. For us, the horse meat industry has given us a financial boost to our farming practices as well as the ability to embrace our Métis traditions and culture.

How many members of the Métis Nation across Canada did you consult with before putting this bill forward?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I have had conversations with individuals, and we have a meeting set up with I believe the Métis Nation of Alberta as well.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

How many of them were supportive of this bill?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I have talked to some who are and some who aren't.

I want to say this bill is a stand-alone bill that will not stop breeding of horses. It will not stop the sale of horses. This is simply stopping the export of live horses for slaughter by air.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

This is a significant part of the industry.

You mention the Amish horses in your riding. What do the owners of those horses do at the end of the lifespan of the horses?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

The sale and export of horses for slaughter is not about the end of life of horses. This is about raising horses and, specifically, fattening them up to be used as sushi overseas. That is not the same. That's a false comparison.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

What is the percentage of the population, globally, that still relies on horsemeat as a key part of its protein diet?