Agriculture Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Okay. You're waiting. Did you participate?

[Pierre Riel]

We did not participate in the code. We were informed through the RCC.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Right.

[Pierre Riel]

We asked them questions. What we know about it is that there was a consultant hired. The committee is now two members from the RCC and—without giving names—from Metro and Sobeys. We're waiting for them to come back to us to see what will happen. We were not invited to be part of that committee.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We will turn it over to Ms. Taylor Roy.

You have up to five minutes.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Riel, for being here.

I appreciate your code of conduct and ethics that you have in Costco. I know that you have been co-operating and working with the government. Thank you for your submission. However, we still are dealing with high grocery costs. For me, as a representative in Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, that's a great concern to many of my constituents. That is one issue.

The other is for independent grocers who feel that it's very difficult to compete with the large chains and with, as you mentioned, more competition in especially the smaller areas. For the smaller regions of Canada it is important.

You mentioned that you thought it was very important to work collaboratively with the government to address these issues. I know that we had committed to stabilize prices. Actually, my colleague across the way was incorrect when she said that we were going to bring them down. We had said that we were going to try to stabilize prices with the grocers.

When I look at the many, many articles that talk about why grocery prices are or have been so high in Canada—I'm looking at one here from CTV, but I have read many of them—they talk about supply chain issues stemming from the pandemic. They talk about the geopolitical turmoil in Russia. They talk about extreme weather and climate change as well as many other factors.

When you're dealing with these kinds of issues, what do you think we can do collaboratively with the grocery retailers and other players in the chain—as you have mentioned, there are many—to try to bring some more relief to consumers who are struggling right now?

[Pierre Riel]

That's a wide question, so—

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

It is.

[Pierre Riel]

My recommendation would be for all of us to look at what we can produce in Canada a little more. That would be my first thing.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Yes.

[Pierre Riel]

I will say that if we're all sitting together as a group, looking at the variations in industries—at farmers, secondary manufacturing and tertiary manufacturing—I think there's a way to look at it and ask if there some way that we can support those small and medium-sized businesses to become a little bit larger, to a degree that everybody can sustain, honestly. That's important.

To me, you're going to avoid a lot of costs the closer the product is to the consumer. There's absolutely no doubt. I think we have multiple good things in Canada. This is a great country. I love this country. There are a lot of resources. We have a lot of ways of doing things. We have a lot of creativity. We have a lot of nationalities around us, which should help us to do better. We should learn from each other.

I'm a strong believer that if we focus on producing more in Canada without forcing anybody, but just by working together, then there's a way, and the consumers will benefit from it.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

That's fantastic. Thank you.

Also, the value of the Canadian dollar was impacting grocery prices—

[Pierre Riel]

Yes.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

—so the more we produce here, the better.

You're saying to not just look at farming but also at some of the secondary and tertiary manufacturing as well, and at doing more here. I agree. Of course, that would also help with our climate change issues.

[Pierre Riel]

Yes.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

The shorter the distance we transport things, the less we have to pay for the rising costs of gas and fuel as well.

That's one interesting....

Do you work to support any Canadian manufacturers or businesses? Do you extend vertically at all in your chain?

[Pierre Riel]

Absolutely we do. I'll give Kirkland Signature as an example. The Kirkland Signature detergent made in Canada is exported to China right now. We opened a sixth store in China this year. We're going to open a seventh one in June. The Kirkland Signature detergent is made in Canada.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay.

[Pierre Riel]

The maple syrup is probably one of the best examples. We're the largest seller of maple syrup in Japan, and that's all coming from Quebec. It's the Kirkland Signature maple syrup.

That's the way you're going to help those industries to develop a little larger. Then we're becoming well known. It's not just Costco; it's also the producer.

I think there's a way to get efficiency from it, and at the end of the day, it's going to be a better price.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I have one last question. It's just on the independent grocers.

We value small business in Canada. We value local services and our downtowns. A lot of them are the local independent grocers.

What do you think can be done to help them compete against some of the larger chains that are right now dominating the market?

[Pierre Riel]

I think, again, there's a variation in the way you do business when you're a smaller grocer or you're in a small town. I'm from a small town. When I go back to my town, I'm trying to buy local. The reason is not just to make sure that you support your community; it's that you get a different approach. They know their people and that. Those independent grocers do well what they do because, at the end of the day, they serve the member. They take the time with the customer—I called the customer “the member”, but that's obviously in my language. Having said that, I think being closer to the consumer is something that will help everybody.

We're going to be in Rimouski, and we're in Sudbury, in those small towns, and when Costco goes and opens in a small city, I often get this question: Are you competing with them? I think we're helping them because they can come to buy from us at a better price and resell the goods. We have proven that across the country. We're operating in Chicoutimi, in Grande Prairie, in Medicine Hat, in some size of city. Then we can support everybody.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I'm not sure that my independent grocers would agree with wanting that, but I understand what you're saying.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. Perron, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Riel, thank you again for your clear responses. I would like to obtain some equally clear answers in the next few minutes. It won't be awkward for you.

At the start of your remarks earlier, you said that you were sticking to your model and that you provided confidential documents in November. Was there really anything new in these documents, or was the goal simply to explain to committee members your usual practices?