Agriculture Committee on Feb. 15th, 2024

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

I know your organization is a member of a broader umbrella group, Farmers for Climate Solutions. I recently had a meeting with that group, and one of the big topics was the implementation of a sustainable agriculture strategy.

Do you know a little bit about that? Do you know how this Canadian farm resilience agency might fit into that wider strategy?

[Jennifer Pfenning]

The CFRA would actually enable us to implement all of the things that we see are necessary under the sustainable agriculture strategy.

Darrin Qualman is the NFU's representative at the sustainable agriculture strategy table, and he's representing us very well. As you're looking at that sustainable agriculture strategy, I would encourage you to not water it down. Keep it strong. We have to keep the vision very effective, bold and visionary.

The CFRA would.... I don't have enough time here to explain all of it, but we will provide a written submission with further details and an expanded explanation of it.

Essentially, it's a way to support farmers to do what we need to do to adapt to climate change.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Let me rephrase the question. I just want to switch gears.

It's a known fact there are extreme labour pressures in the agriculture industry, and new data came out today from the Canadian Agricultural Human Resource Council. It estimates that by the year 2030 there'll be 100,000 vacancies in the agricultural industry. Given that labour is a such a key component to its future success—to its current success—does the NFU have any ideas it would like to share with the committee, or can you provide any recommendations on how we can best approach that labour deficiency, that gap, to ensure our farmers are as successful as possible?

[Jennifer Pfenning]

Thank you very much. You've touched on a really important point. I saw the notice that the report had hit my inbox, but I haven't had a chance to look at it.

I'll just talk for a minute about a specific example. On my farm, in the peak of our season, we employ roughly 150 people, and 45 of those individuals come from overseas. We have, as a country, been relying on offshore labour, human beings who come to our country to work on our farms and do the essential work of producing food. At the beginning of the pandemic, we saw what happened when we didn't have those skilled hands in our fields.

Ultimately, if we want to address that labour shortage, we have to ensure that we set farming up. Specifically, horticulture has a very great demand for physical and human labour that cannot be replaced by machines, as the technology has not been adapted to do that. I struggle to see how that would happen in any short period.

We require many people. If we want to address that need, we have to ensure we have a system that enables the people working in the field to produce the food we eat to have a dignified work experience, no matter where they come from.

Increasingly relying on workers who come here and are subjected to very strict controls that reduce their agency, and in many ways disenfranchise them and make them vulnerable, is not a productive or positive way forward.

We, as the NFU, have many papers on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Ms. Pfenning.

Mr. MacGregor, I gave an extra minute and a half. I know you'll be judicious in your second round to give us that time back.

Next we have Mr. Epp.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

I'll begin with our friends from Nova Scotia.

I appreciated your testimony on the temporary foreign worker and housing situation. That's a very familiar subject in my own riding, where there is a large horticultural presence. I also appreciated your testimony regarding PMRA and PMC.

Can you talk quickly about the co-operation between our Canadian regulatory folks and the industry with the IR-4 program? Could you also talk about the number of projects that are being supported, given inflationary costs and the lack of support for the PMC? I'm assuming that the number of projects that qualify is being reduced.

[Emily Lutz, Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fruit Growers' Association]

I can take that one.

I'm Emily Lutz, the executive director here to support Jeff in his questions.

Speaking directly to that, the FVGC is looking for an $8-million increase for the PMC. That directly translates into the ability to do more projects and collect more data.

What's important to recognize, too, is that the best data helps us address increasingly complex issues, and some of that is also driven by climate change. It's not just the products we're using right now, but it's the projects and challenges we're facing moving forward.

Climate change has brought insects to our industry from elsewhere that we have never seen before because of our warming climate. Looking ahead, it's going to be essential for the PMC to collect that data for us in order for us to make good farming choices.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to switch to our friends from Quebec. We heard in testimony earlier that consumption of fresh fruits and vegetables is declining, cost being one of the main drivers. One might think that if Canada adopted a code of conduct, it would bring transparency but would increase the cost to consumers.

Mr. Bourgoin, you touched on Ireland. The U.K. has a code of conduct and the consumer experience has been just the opposite. Could we expect in Canada that if we took a code of conduct, the consumer would actually see lower prices?

[Patrice Léger Bourgoin]

Thanks for your question.

Consumers would definitely view healthy relations between suppliers and retailers as a positive.

At the request of the federal, provincial and territorial departments, we worked for two and a half years to establish a dialogue in order to develop a retailer code of conduct and industry good practices. That work was done with considerable maturity and extensive dialogue.

We talked to each other, eyeball to eyeball, and, to the satisfaction of the ministers, managed to present a code of conduct that, in our humble opinion, will serve the interests of everyone in the country.

However, one industry actor in particular came and said he didn't agree. The consultation process took two and a half years, but, at the last minute, someone said he didn't agree and didn't want to be part of the process. That attitude is simply unacceptable.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you.

Very quickly, who needs to participate in the code for the consumers to benefit? Is it everyone?

[Patrice Léger Bourgoin]

I would say that the major retailers that influence the market must be part of this. Eighty percent of sales are made by a small number of retailers. Those five major retailers in Canada must definitely be part of it.

The associations of smaller retailers took an energetic part in developing the code, which, I would reiterate, should smooth out relations.

I believe that, after two years of exploration, we will collectively be able to verify whether the work we've done yields the desired results.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to cede my time to my colleague Ms. Rood.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Bourgoin, in testimony between you and Ms. Lefebvre, you mentioned that in some instances, farmers are being undercut by the big grocers, and my colleague just touched on the code of conduct.

I'm wondering if you can give us an example of some of the practices you've seen in Quebec. We've heard some of the things from farmers in Ontario. What have you seen the grocers do to farmers in Quebec when it comes to advertised specials and getting their local product into grocery stores in Quebec, and how would that code benefit those farmers?

[Patrice Léger Bourgoin]

I'll give you one example.

This happened last January. A Quebec producer got a call from a major chain that wanted to sell one of its products, as my boss mentioned earlier. The product was subject to an agreement between the producer and the major chain. A few days later, the same chain received a better price from a Mexican producer and then decided to cancel the order from the Quebec producer.

When the major retailers come to the table, they simply say that their aim is to lower prices for consumers.

However, in this specific case, in the following days, we kept gathering information on the withdrawal of the Quebec product in favour of the Mexican product. Strangely, we saw that the price displayed on the circular and in stores hadn't dropped. The chain had simply maintained the price, even though it had obtained a product from outside Canada at a lower price.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Go ahead really quickly, Ms. Rood.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you for that information.

I'd like to move a motion:

That the committee invite the Minister of Agriculture and AgriFood to appear for no fewer than two hours regarding the Supplementary Estimates (C), 2023-24 and that this meeting take place as soon as possible, but no later than Friday, March 1, 2024.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

That could be tough, given that it's two weeks away, but of course we always have the minister in to have different opportunities to hear from him, so we'll see where that goes as a committee.

We'll turn it over to Mr. Louis for up to five minutes.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you to all the witnesses.

I'll be splitting my time with Ms. Taylor Roy

. I'm going to direct my questions to Jen Pfenning of the National Farmers Union, because it's an honour to speak in this committee to a farmer who lives 15 minutes down the road from me in Kitchener-Conestoga. We've had many conversations on your back porch and at the kitchen table.

You mentioned in your statement off the top that class 1 and 2 farmland must be protected and reserved for farmers to grow food. Can you expand on the importance of keeping this farmland for us to have that local food?

I understand that we're losing 319 acres of farmland every day in Ontario. What can we do to keep those small and medium-sized family farms like yours in our communities? What measures can we take to protect farmland, and how can all levels of government work together?

[Jennifer Pfenning]

Thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to speak with you, Tim, and I look forward to having some more chats on the deck or at the kitchen table.

I probably don't need to remind all of you just how precious class 1 and 2 farmland is in our country. Less than half of a per cent of our total land mass fits into that category, and more than 50% of it is in southern Ontario. It's mostly very close to urban centres. Those urban centres are the source of pressure on that very farmland that feeds us because of the expansion of the urban centres and sprawl.

All levels of government need to work together to ensure that the protections that exist are not eroded and in fact are strengthened. Farmland needs to be seen as a non-renewable resource, because it is. If we allow the existing dynamic to continue, we will lose the capacity to feed ourselves eventually and in the not too distant future.

Farming should be the number one highest priority for class 1 and 2 farmland use, for every piece of it across this country. By enshrining protections that ensure it is kept, we will enable ourselves to continue to feed ourselves into the next generation.

It's been very difficult for individual farmers to prevent the loss of farmland, because we're under pressure to sell. For the next generation to take over, it is very difficult. We don't have a way to save for retirement beyond the increased value of our farmland that we have to then sell. Those falling returns for what we grow are creating the structural deficit I mentioned. Input companies and landlords are taking too much and buyers are paying too little, with the difference being taken out of our land, out of the labour and out of our income.

Allowing it to continue is unsustainable. We need to look to the future.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I want to share my time with Ms. Taylor Roy. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

You have just under two minutes.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Louis. Actually, you asked one of the questions I was going to ask.

I'd like to continue directing my questions to you, Ms. Pfenning.

I appreciate what you're doing as an organic farmer. In my constituency there are several of them, including Southbrook Vineyards and Bill Redelmeier, Frank's Organics, Joyfully Organic Farm. I have spoken to a number of them, and they're very concerned about the organic standards that we have in place and the cost of certification.

I'm wondering if you have any comment on that and what our government can do to support organic farms in particular.

[Jennifer Pfenning]

Thank you very much for that question.

I'm very familiar with the farms you mentioned as well. I enjoy Southbrook wine a lot.

The organic standard is the key to maintaining our ability to protect organic farmers from imports that don't meet the same standard. As we are reviewing it currently, we have received funding from the government and we're very grateful for that as a sector, but we need supports in place to ensure that the support to review and maintain the standard is ongoing.

Other jurisdictions around the world are supporting their organic standard. Our biggest trading partner, the U.S., is investing far in excess of what we have invested per capita into organics. That's our biggest competition as farmers in Ontario, in Canada. We are competing south of the border.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We're going to have to leave it at that. Thank you to you both.

I would like to recognize the presence of Mr. Ehsassi, member of Parliament for Willowdale, who has presented a motion on food waste, in terms of creating a framework.

It's great to have you, an urban MP, here taking an interest in rural issues and sustainability. Thank you, Mr. Ehsassi.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Pfenning, you proposed to create an agency focusing on farm resilience. You mentioned that it was important that the agency be highly decentralized and that decisions come from its base. You said it had to be a centre that gathered information from research funded by the public sector, not by businesses that make profits from proposed products. Among other things, I'm thinking of the recent update of directives on genomic editing, which must certainly have disappointed you.

Do you agree with me that, if something of that kind were established, it would have to be really decentralized in order to accommodate the specific situations of the provinces and territories? Farmlands are different, and they are subject to different climates. Shouldn't there also be a major investment in research and development?