Evidence of meeting #96 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was animals.
A recording is available from Parliament.
March 21st, 2024 / 11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
The meat market, nationally, is very small. If horses are unable to be exported by air, the market will be flooded with meat horses, and there will be no market. That's a concern. How do we dispose of these horses?
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Woods, we often hear about the redaction of transportation documents. Are you aware of this? Can you tell us about it?
Obviously, as parliamentarians, we're all in favour of transparency.
11:55 a.m.
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
I am not with the CFIA, and I am not with the government, but I just know—I believe—that you have to redact people's names and some specific things. It's a law. It's not because anyone is trying to hide anything. It's actually the law that says these are the specifics that have to be redacted. That's my understanding.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you.
Do you think that the passage of this bill could end horse meat consumption? When you spoke earlier about a type of escalation, is that what you meant?
Please keep your answer brief.
11:55 a.m.
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
I don't believe it will end the consumption of horse meat, because around three billion people around the world consume horse meat, but they're definitely going to go there next. That is the end goal. If they can shut this down, they're going after our domestic slaughter also. That's very clear.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you, Ms. Woods, and thank you, Mr. Perron.
Next is Mr. MacGregor, and then I have one question from where I sit.
Go ahead, Mr. MacGregor. You have two and a half minutes.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Witness 1, you mentioned that you have been doing this for approximately 20 years. What was it that your family was doing before, and what were the conditions that made this a possibility, a business to get into?
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
It's just that we were doing it on a smaller scale, and the price wasn't what it is now. Now the price of the meat market has gone up, so we've increased our herd numbers.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you.
Dr. Samson-French, I've been out on the tarmac before, when I've had to exit the terminal to get onto a plane, and suffice it to say, the noise level at an airport is quite high. We're all very familiar with the decibel levels when a plane is accelerating down the runway, and with the sudden shift in position.
I'm just wondering this: In your experience, how have horses reacted to such high noise levels? Do you have anything to add to that particular question?
11:55 a.m.
Veterinarian, Banded Peak Veterinary Hospital, As an Individual
For me, from just standing to watch the animals that are in the crates that are taken to the airplane and then loaded in.... I mean, even on the tarmac, there are other airplanes departing right beside them while they're sitting on the tarmac, and it's incredibly loud.
When we say that this happens to sport horses, we need to understand that sport horses have been handled; they have been trained. As a veterinarian, I know that when a horse comes to my clinic, a horse needs to be able to load and unload from a trailer. It's not my job to help the client load his horse. We assume that's all done.
These horses are not trained at all for the transport conditions. The noise level for us is incredibly loud. To me, the only way I can assess that from a distance with binoculars is by actually hearing the horses. For horses that are calm, you shouldn't hear anything in the crates. In this case, you hear kicking non-stop from one crate to the next crate to the next crate, and I feel sorry for the one horse that is sitting in there that's getting the kick as well. The incredible kicking that goes on in the crates tells me that these horses are not at peace and are not happy being there.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.
Just quickly, Ms. Woods, we potentially might have the Embassy of Japan come to provide testimony. You mentioned that you were in Japan. There have been suggestions made that we process horses here in Canada and ship meat to Japan.
Do you know what the difference is between horse that might be frozen but is ultimately consumed in Japan and those that are slaughtered in Japan? Obviously, it's for a fresher product.
Can you speak to that at all? Do you have any expertise in terms of why they're shipped to Japan in the first place to be processed? Is it just about the freshness or the way it's served?
Noon
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
Yes, it is the freshness of the meat.
The carcasses leave the plant the day of slaughter. They go right out, what we would call “hot on the hook”, so they're warm going out because they're used for sushi as the number one use of them, and the meat has to be very, very fresh.
If you've ever had frozen meat on sushi, you would understand, but that is why they want the meat fresh.
The horses also have to live there. They have to spend, I believe, three months in Japan to be able to go on to be processed. There's a whole set of regulations there of how long they need to be in Japan for that.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Ms. Samson-French talked about the fact that, although the regulations may be the same between meat horses that are going to Japan versus what we'll call show horses for Spruce Meadows and things of that nature, the actual conditions in the plane can be vastly different because of their element.
Can you explain a bit, because as I understand it from testimony before this committee, the regulations are the same, but the conditions put in place by the individuals who may be shipping the horses may be different on the basis of their end outcome. How different is it? I want to give you the opportunity to explain. You said that you've been on the planes and you've talked to attendants.
Ms. Samson-French talked about the fact that there's different stationing between the horses.
Is there something we could do to be able to move the standards towards better animal health care, notwithstanding that we're not talking about million-dollar show horses either?
Noon
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
I believe there's always room for improvement anywhere, but even with stalled horses, the horses are hauled loose and the crates have more room. My briefing shows you that the square footage available in a stall is less than the square footage available to these horses.
In a stall, yes, they have the partitions, but those cause problems, because when a horse goes to brace, a horse has to go out. The stalls restrict the ability to brace.
One of the reasons they wear the boots on their feet is injuries they can obtain in stalls. I've referenced actual research based on that in my briefing on those injuries. Horses are more likely to get injured in a stall than they are when they are loose hauled. The standards say to loose haul them, so is there room for improvement? Always. We can always look at it. It's what I dedicate my life to.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you.
Lastly, because I don't want to push my time here as the chair, but to Witness 1, you mentioned the variety of different elements of how the operation works for raising colts and that it's tied into other elements on the farm.
Can you just briefly describe the other elements? If you're raising mares, what could they be used for?
I take your point that you're raising the colts for some other reason and you're shipping them to Japan, but what are those other reasons that are important? What I'm hearing from you in your testimony is that, if you don't send these colts for the purpose that they're being sent for now, they may not have a whole lot of useful purpose, yet they're connected to the other elements of your farm.
Noon
As an Individual
Yes, all of our broodmares are also broken to drive, so if a mare comes up open, that broodmare gets to go to work in the winter. She hauls bales for cattle and helps us train other younger horses.
After the foals are weaned, we have people who call us and say, “Do you have these foals available?” “Yes, come on in. Come and look.” We market foals that way as well.
Whatever's left over, whatever didn't make the cut, goes to our exporter.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you very much, and thank you, colleagues.
We're going to end our first panel and turn it over to the second, so don't go far.
The meeting is suspended for two or three minutes.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Colleagues, we're back at it. Thank you, everyone, for the quick transition.
I welcome you to the second panel. Today we have, appearing as an individual, Dr. Jonas Watson, a veterinarian who is joining us by video conference.
It's great to have you with us.
From Overseas Horse Services Ltd., we have Kenneth Serrien, managing director, coming in from Calgary, as I heard during the remarks.
From the Canadian Equine Exporters Association, here in the room, we have William Shore and Kevin Wilson.
It's great to have you here. Thank you for being here in person.
We're going to turn right over to opening remarks for up to five minutes. Then we'll go to questions.
I'm going to start with Dr. Watson, please, for up to five minutes.
12:10 p.m.
Dr. Jonas Watson Veterinarian, As an Individual
Good day, and thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee.
I'm here today as a veterinarian, as a horse owner and as one of the great majority of Canadians who oppose the live horse export industry.
Canadian horses shipped for slaughter to Japan are deprived of food for the full duration of their transport, which can last up to 28 hours and sometimes exceeds that. We can presume that the prevalence of prolonged hunger in these animals is high and increases in severity the longer they travel. After only 12 hours of transport without food, horses are at increased risk of developing painful gastroenteric disorders such as stomach ulceration.
These horses are also deprived of water for the entire duration of their travel. Physiological biomarkers of dehydration have been detected in horses after as little as one hour of water deprivation. Prolonged thirst leads to dehydration, discomfort and suffering.
How does the experience of 28 hours of food and water being withheld feel to a horse? It's probably very similar to how you might feel after sitting on an airplane all day with nary a pretzel nor a ginger ale.
In 2022, the European Food Safety Authority's panel on animal health and welfare recommended that during transport, horses should be provided with constant access to food and water, or should at least be offered these at regular intervals of no more than four hours, for a period of 30 minutes.
Post-transport colic is a phenomenon that can appear within a few hours following travel. Post-transport colic emergencies require the prompt attention of a veterinarian. If colic develops during overseas transport, there is little to nothing that can be done. We have no way of knowing how many of Canada's exported horses go on to suffer this fate as a consequence of transport or how, and if, they are even treated.
The respiratory tract is one of the physiological systems most susceptible to infections in horses after long‐distance transport. Clinical respiratory disorders, such as pleuropneumonia or shipping fever, have been detected in horses after journeys as short as 10 hours.
A 2016 study published in The Veterinary Journal showed that horses transported by air had a prevalence of shipping fever of 11%. Journey duration was confirmed as a risk factor that is difficult to control in the face of flight delays and quarantine requirements.
One of the most important preventive measures to ensure horse welfare during travel is habituation and self‐loading training, which helps minimize transport stress and reduces the incidence of problem behaviours and injuries. This sort of training is undertaken by valuable horses used in sports such as show jumping and other competitive events.
The horses we send to Japan, on the other hand, have not been desensitized to transport of any kind, having spent the entirety of their short lives on a feedlot. Their stress begins even before the animals have left Canadian soil, as evidenced by their experiences disembarking from the trucks.
Videos filmed in my hometown of Winnipeg have documented handlers at the airport attempting to unload horses using long sticks to aggressively prod the animals through holes in the trailer walls. This repeated jabbing and poking represents a total disregard for the animals' well-being, and this despite the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's assertion that everything that happens to these horses prior to departure takes place under strict CFIA supervision.
The CFIA has also been questioned before this committee about the compatibility of horses when housed together in transport. CFIA personnel indicated to you all that determination of compatibility of cohorts is based solely on uniformity in size. That means that if four same-sized but temperamentally incompatible horses are boxed together for the journey, it's left to them to not fight with, kick or bite each other.
I would note that each of these hazards—horse temperament, separation from other horses and regrouping with unfamiliar horses—is among the many identified by the EFSA as having negative welfare consequences during transport.
Finally, let us not forget where these horses end up. They end up in Japan, a country with an abysmal track record when it comes to animal welfare.
Some examples of Japan's poor treatment of animals include its ongoing support of commercial whaling, its farming of bears for the illegal gall bladder market, and its annual dolphin hunt, in which wild dolphins are either butchered alive for meat or caught and shipped around the world to spend their lives in captivity, swimming with tourists.
Closer to home, I have far more faith in this country's commitment to animal welfare. I have great respect for Canada's farmers and the essential workers who feed our country and the world. However, the live horse export industry does not feed Canadians. It caters to a foreign market of super-elites, whose gustatory special needs have been prioritized over the health, safety and well-being of Canada's horses.
The oath I took as a veterinarian requires me to promote animal welfare and prevent animal suffering. The live horse export industry is cruel to animals and inconsistent with the values held by most Canadians. As such, I support Bill C-355 and hope you will all listen to your constituents and ensure its passage.
Thank you.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
12:15 p.m.
Kenneth Serrien Managing Director, Overseas Horse Services Ltd.
Chair and committee members of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, my name is Kenneth Serrien, and I'm the managing director of Overseas Horse Services Ltd.
Overseas Horse Services Ltd. is a transportation company that organizes flights for sport and companion horses in Canada. We've been flying horses all over the world, to and from Canada, since 2008. Our company arranges everything to facilitate the import and export of these horses, such as quarantine, stabling, blood testing, health papers and general logistics.
Sport—racing, dressage or show jumping—and companion horses and the business surrounding that, which includes horse sales plus ground and air transportation, generates an estimated $150 million per year in Canada. The majority is generated by major competitions such as Spruce Meadows, Thunderbird Showpark, the Royal Winter Fair, Wesley Clover Parks, major-league show jumping and the Woodbine racetrack, all of which are highly dependent on the ability to import and export horses by air. Currently, around 1,000 horses are being exported from and imported into Canada by air every year, and many are shipped to attend these competitions.
I would like to thank you for the opportunity to speak in front of this committee and share my and my colleagues' opinions concerning Bill C-355, as this bill can have serious consequences for the air transportation of sport and companion horses.
Please note that there is a significant difference between handling sport or companion horses and handling horses for fattening and slaughter. All of the horses we transport have been trained to be handled and are halter-broken. They are used to regularly being transported by road or air. As a result, we can load these horses in a safe manner in divided standing stalls on the plane, where a maximum of three horses are loaded per stall in their own segregated compartment. Horses for slaughter, however, are not used to regular handling and lack basic behaviour training. Therefore, they require a different loading protocol.
Here are some of my comments regarding the bill itself.
First of all, I have a comment about the declaration that is proposed. Pilots and CBSA have no expertise in horse behaviour. They don't know if an animal is in distress or not. They would not recognize the difference between a companion or sport horse and a horse for fattening and slaughter. Therefore, relying on them to make decisions regarding the welfare of horses during transportation could be impractical and potentially risky. Prior to every export, we already submit an export declaration via the Canadian export reporting system, or CERS, which is part of CBSA and Statistics Canada. We're already doing export declarations and providing all the information to CBSA and Statistics Canada. Per my above comments, I am concerned about the implementation of this process, especially as cargo planes have very irregular and often changing operating hours.
The second point I'd like to talk about is detention. The bill asks that the chief of customs at every airport detain a horse until they have a copy of the declaration. Again, I'm concerned about this implementation. How and where will these horses be detained at airports? Most airports lack the proper facilities to detain horses. In Calgary, we have a specialized animal facility that has the potential to detain 12 horses at a time. Toronto Pearson airport has the potential to detain only three horses, but other airports that regularly handle horses for export, such as the airports in Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa, Hamilton, etc., don't have these facilities. You cannot detain a horse without having proper holding facilities, as it jeopardizes the health of the horse greatly and would also be considered inhumane and unsafe for staff.
Additionally, because the horses are under quarantine status, you cannot bring them back to their point of origin in Canada. There are a lot of steps involved in transporting horses by air from Canada—for example, quarantine protocols, testing, health papers and trucking—so detaining the horses could have grave consequences for the movement itself and for the CFIA staff who are supervising these movements.
The last thing I'd like to talk about is the “false or misleading information” part of the bill. I'm very uncertain how this can be enforced and evaluated. The transportation companies and airlines are wholly dependent on the information provided by the client or the horse owner regarding the purpose of export. Additionally, how do we know where the horse eventually ends up overseas? There is no traceability in Canada, the EU or anywhere in the world.
These are some of my concerns after having read this bill. It's my opinion that the implementation of this bill would greatly hinder the process of exporting horses from Canada for show and companionship purposes.
I greatly appreciate the opportunity you have provided to speak on this matter.
Thank you very much.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you very much. We'll now turn it over to the Canadian Equine Exporters Association.
You have the floor for up to five minutes.
12:20 p.m.
Kevin Wilson Treasurer, Canadian Equine Exporters Association
Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the invitation to speak to this committee today. I'm here on behalf of the Canadian Equine Exporters Association.
First and foremost, we want to bring to your attention our industry's belief that we have not had enough meaningful consultation with industry stakeholders on this bill, including exporters, producers, multiple first nations communities and airline pilots, prior to its being introduced in Parliament.
While some members of this committee did agree to take meetings with us, 45 minutes is not nearly enough to gain true insight into the economic impact this bill would have on Canadian farm families or to understand its immense implications on animal welfare.
Proof of this is the complete and utter misconception that these horses are only 18 months of age when they are exported. We have no idea where the government heard this, but it is not accurate at all. Export contracts today state that horses must be between the ages of 24 and 36 months old prior to arriving in Japan.
The removal of the revenue from these specific, purpose-bred draft horses would be detrimental to the Canadian economy and to these families.
Mr. Chair, this would cause a huge animal welfare issue for the nearly 13,000 purpose-bred draft horses that are involved in this market.
What are these breeders supposed to do with these mares, stallions and foals that they have invested in to feed their families? Nowhere in this bill have we seen any mention of compensation for these farmers. As of last week, buyers of domestic slaughter horses were offering to buy these animals at less than 8% of the current fair-market value of the foals that we bring to our customers.
No one at this committee wants to talk about the colts that are produced as a result of pregnant mares' urine production in western Canada. For those who do not know, the PMU industry is a source of pharmaceutical ingredients that are highly sought-after in today's modern medicine.
My next point, Mr. Chair, is about the well-funded animal activist campaigns that have sought celebrity endorsements to promote their cause to the public based on falsehoods and inaccurate depictions of the facts. This agenda pulls at the heartstrings of many Canadians, but it does not represent the actual facts.
For example, it has been said in Parliament that the United States has banned this practice. That is 100% false. Today, export charts to Japan from the U.S.A. can still be issued by the USDA.
This is not an animal transportation issue; this is an animal end-use issue. We have heard from independent professionals at the CFIA, and from animal welfare expert Jennifer Woods, who has witnessed this first-hand right before and while we were loading these animals on the farm. They have witnesses and have both come to the conclusion that we are exceeding the current standard set out in the Health of Animals Act and the health of animals regulations. These are the facts, Mr. Chair, and facts don't care about your feelings.
Has anybody at this committee taken the time to visit the manufacturer of these boxes that we load these animals into? Has anybody at this committee taken the time to witness, in live action, these horses being loaded onto the airplanes?
All we keep hearing about is the cramped conditions that exist. However, the facts are that CFIA, animal welfare experts and industry professionals all agree 100% that this is not the case. Why are we still hearing this point again and again?
Is it because the people of this committee have chosen to turn a blind eye to the science and the evidence and to believe a celebrity endorsement campaign?
Their ultimate goal is to stop animal agriculture altogether. If you don't believe me, listen to this quote from the Canadian Horse Defence Coalition, which is one of the major stakeholders in this debate and a central player in the petitions and emails that we are hearing so much about.
On their website, under the frequently asked questions section, they state, “If society and our lawmakers can agree that we shouldn’t [export,] slaughter and eat horses, then logically the next step will be to examine the welfare of all animals used for food.”
There you have it, Mr. Chair. Make no mistake: This is the tip of the iceberg. Animal agriculture is a Titanic, and if this legislation passes, we all know what the result will be.
If we want to talk about public policy, public signatures and public outcry, before this committee is a letter signed by over 20 internationally recognized Canadian farm organizations, like the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, the Canadian Cattle Association and the Canadian Meat Council, just to name a few. These farm organizations represent almost 200,000 farm businesses and farm families that oppose this bill. Letting an animal's end use and extreme animal activism dictate agricultural policy in this country is a mistake.
We, as Canadians and as industry, ask the government to follow the science and facts presented by the animal welfare experts and CFIA, who have audited this process first-hand.
We can discuss and debate opinions, but we can not dispute the facts.
Thank you for your time. My colleague, Mr. Shore, and I will welcome any questions the committee may have for us.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
We're going to get to that right now, Mr. Wilson.
We'll turn it over to my Conservative bench here, with Mr. Barlow, for up to six minutes.
Colleagues, we are going to try to do two full rounds, even if it just puts us slightly beyond. I might have to limit time in the second, but I'll do my best.
Go ahead.