Evidence of meeting #96 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was animals.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
In those 20 years, when you divide up the farm income that you have, roughly how much has come from the horses that are destined for export? Give me just a percentage, or a rough ballpark figure.
March 21st, 2024 / 11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
It's probably 40%, as a rough guess.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
I've been on this committee for six years. In all forms of animal husbandry, there has long been a complaint from producers and ranchers that we have seen a whittling away of processing capacity in Canada. The cattle industry especially is dominated by two giant behemoths, JB and Cargill, and a lot of small communities have seen their processing and the economic opportunities from that processing disappear.
I'm wondering if, in indigenous communities, particularly Métis communities, when you look at the fact that the feedlots and the processing are all happening in a foreign jurisdiction, there have ever been conversations in your community about lost economic opportunities here in Canada, about doing processing here. Has that promoting of economic resilience within indigenous communities ever been a topic of conversation?
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
I've heard that there have been conversations started in the past, but I'm not sure where they're at now or if they've fizzled out. I think that for a lot of indigenous people just the day-to-day survival, never mind looking down the road, seems to be what they're most focused on.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Would you look favourably upon a serious government commitment to trying to develop that processing capacity?
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
You would. Okay. Thank you for that.
Ms. Woods, thank you for being here also.
I want to ask a few questions as a layperson. Do you know generally what type of aircraft is used to transport them? I fly planes all the time, but is it generally an aircraft on which they can lift the tail section and load them in? I'm just curious as to how it looks.
11:40 a.m.
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
Well, it depends on which cargo. It's actually in my briefing here. It depends on what it is. A 767 is what Air Canada uses. I know it was referenced in past meetings that they haul only 18 horses at a time. That was their maximum. They actually haul only that many horses because they can put only six pallets on those planes. That's why. It's not for welfare reasons or anything.
We can look at the Boeing 747-800s. They carry 90 horses: thirty pallets, three horses each. These are stalled horses also. These are not just our horses. The 747-400s can carry 28 pallets, which is 84 horses. Boeing 777s can accommodate 81 horses on 27 pallets. We can have large loads. It depends. Some of them do have the noses that open, and some don't.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
I've watched a lot of aircraft being loaded with cargo as I'm waiting to board. When you're talking about pallets, the horses are in crates that are on a pallet that is moved, brought up by an elevator and then moved into the space.
11:40 a.m.
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
Yes. Unfortunately, I didn't bring video, but I have video of all of this process.
Yes, that determines the pallet size. The pallet size for horses in stalls is the same pallet size as the loose hauled horses, but it has to be able to fit on the pallet mover. It takes them out to the airport. They go on the lift or the loader. That lifts them up. It rolls them onto the airplane and then rolls them down into cargo. I'm happy to share pictures and video.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Sure, and those aircraft are not designed specifically for horses. They can take other loads if need be.
11:40 a.m.
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
Yes. They are cargo planes.
11:40 a.m.
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
The horses that are exported to Japan for meat are transported on the exact same types of airplane as the competition or riding horses are.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
You mentioned that on some of the bigger aircraft you potentially could have in excess of 80 horses. You said that somewhere in the 90s is possible on some of the bigger models.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
On a plane that size, carrying that many horses, how many attendants would be required to be on board?
11:40 a.m.
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
The way IATA reads for that is that you have to have one for a pallet, and then anything over two pallets or more is up to the airline and the shippers, but the number of attendants on the plane is also dictated by the number of jump seats available. You also have to make sure there are jump seats available for the pilots to rest, so that gets limited too. Some of them have only four or five. Some of them can have 11. It really can—
11:40 a.m.
NDP
11:40 a.m.
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
It's not that many attendants, because other people who are on the plane may have to sit in those seats also, like if you have any crew who also rest. It depends on what it is.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
This is a final question.
With the way they're loaded, is there generally space for the people who are there for animal welfare to be able to walk to the back of the plane and be in visual contact with the horses at all times during the flight?
11:40 a.m.
Animal Care and Welfare Specialist, J Woods Livestock Services
Yes, you can walk up and down between the pallets. I also have footage and pictures of that.
As a closing fact, so people understand, there was a statement that they don't do more than 18. The largest shipment to date of competition horses was 89. Coming out of Calgary, I believe the largest one that is coming out of Spruce Meadows will have 67 horses, so we do also transport them this way, in large numbers.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Kody Blois
Thank you, Mr. MacGregor, and thank you, Ms. Woods.
We'll now go to Mr. Steinley, for up to five minutes.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK
Thank you very much, and thank you to the witnesses for being here.
Unlike my Liberal colleague, I believe there is only one set of facts. There are not two sets of facts.
Ms. Woods, you have just said there is a constant visual look. You are able to see the horses on the flight. In this committee, people have said those horses are unattended when they're going to Japan.
Is that categorically false?
