Evidence of meeting #2 for Bill C-18 (41st Parliament, 1st Session) in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farmers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Knubley  Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Murdoch MacKay  Commissioner, Canadian Grain Commission
Richard Phillips  Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada
Greg Meredith  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Gordon Bacon  Chief Executive Officer, Pulse Canada
Stephen Vandervalk  President, Grain Growers of Canada
Bob Friesen  Farmers of North America Inc.

10:35 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

A point of order, Mr. Chair, if I could.

I don't like to interrupt my honourable friend across the way, so I didn't, but he referenced a couple of reports that he said prove the value that farmers will get from the Wheat Board, reports that he said were tabled. To be honest, I have to be forthright, the ones that were tabled this evening.... I don't have any documentation that was tabled this evening.

I believe what the department said was they would provide a list of reports that we could then go and access. So far we haven't received the actual list. So I don't believe my friend was wholly accurate when he said they were tabled this evening for us to actually look at. I haven't seen the list, unless of course it happened while I went to the gentlemen's room, but I don't think so.

10:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Mr. Storseth.

10:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB

In a collegial manner, my colleague Mr. Allen is absolutely right, I'm jumping the gun. They haven't been tabled as of yet. Of course the Informa document is going on four years old, and the George Morris Centre document is older than that. I would hope that members of the other side would have taken the time to already read those documents and see the $450 million to $628 million advantage per year to western Canadian farmers. In the timelines, my colleague opposite is absolutely correct, and I correct the record.

10:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Thank you for correcting the record. I see no further need for me to rule on this. The minutes and the Hansard will clearly reflect what was presented in the last round.

Moving on, Ms. Ashton, for five minutes, please.

10:35 p.m.

NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Friesen. Obviously it's very important for us to hear from you as a representative of an organization made up of farmers. The challenge we're faced with here is that we have very limited time to be able to hear from people like yourself, people who have worked on the ground, who are farmers, given obviously the limitations of this committee.

There's also the fact that before Bill C-18 was voted in the House there was an unwillingness on behalf of this government to actually consult with farmers by holding a vote. What is your opinion on the importance of listening to farmers when it comes to legislation that is so critical to their well-being, to the survival of their communities, and quite frankly to the future of our industry?

10:40 p.m.

Farmers of North America Inc.

Bob Friesen

I think it's important that all levels of government listen to all farmers in a discussion on any issue.

10:40 p.m.

NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB

Fair enough.

Our message has been one that has sought for a proper form of consultation rather than two sets of four-hour sessions where for a lot of farmers, whether they're still out on a field or it's been a difficult year, their ability to connect with us has been extremely limited. Unfortunately, this government has sought to ignore their voices in this process.

You referenced how we go forward in terms of different elements that are involved in that kind of future direction. A recurring concern stemming from Bill C-18 is the impact of losing the Wheat Board on the Canadian brand of grain, in that they've done extensive work with farmers' direction to develop some of the best grain in the world, to market that grain in such a way that has resulted in a stellar reputation, a guaranteed reputation. Of course we know that brand was not the Wheat Board's brand, but the farmers' brand, the Canadian product as such. There is a great concern that as private corporations that aren't Canadian come in and carve out the Wheat Board and carve out the work of farmers across the prairies, along with that we will lose the Canadian brand we are all so proud of. What are your thoughts in terms of that fear that many people have shared with us over the last number of weeks?

10:40 p.m.

Farmers of North America Inc.

Bob Friesen

How much sustaining power a brand would have in an international market if we had a new Wheat Board is beyond my expertise to comment on, because I don't know what would happen to the brand. I think that when it comes to our international markets, they want quality and they want consistency.

And certainly I think we should be proud, as Canadian farmers, of what we produce and what we market. This is another thing FNA is very involved in, making sure that people realize that it's about farmers. So I think that's very important. But how this will impact that brand, I couldn't comment on.

10:40 p.m.

NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB

Of course you're familiar with the prairie reality. There are some farms that are close to larger markets and there are many farms that simply aren't, whether it's our neighbours to the south, the U.S., or to major transportation hubs. The concern is that most prairie farmers are not sitting beside extensive local urban markets, and they produce hard red spring wheat and durum, best used for export.

Understanding that prairie reality, how do you think these farmers, whether they're in the northern parts of our provinces or far away from some of these centres, will fare in a system where they're no longer able to coordinate in such a way, and certainly in a system where for others it may be much easier to tap into the work of large agri-business?

10:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Thank you, Ms. Ashton. Your five minutes has expired.

Mr. Friesen, I will certainly allow you an opportunity to answer the question, but before I do so I would like to just mention for the benefit of the members of the committee and the members of Parliament who are here and their staff that I've confirmed that the transportation service provided to parliamentarians here on the Hill will continue to run 30 minutes after the conclusion of this committee meeting for the benefit of those parliamentarians who are here.

Mr. Friesen, please address the question.

10:45 p.m.

Farmers of North America Inc.

Bob Friesen

In terms of the problem you just described with regard to farmers being in remote areas and having to truck their grain, that happened quite a while ago with the consolidation of grain companies and the building of large inland terminals and closing down the community elevators. So that's an issue, of course. And this is why we believe so strongly in building a good network of shortline rail and making sure that farmers have access to terminals inland, and then by extension also have access to port positions.

But the thing you described really started years and years ago, when elevators were closed down and the rails were abandoned.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Thank you, Mr. Friesen.

Mr. Hoback, for five minutes, please.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Friesen. It's great to have you here today. It's refreshing, because actually what I want to hear is what you're talking about, this move forward in a timely manner so that we can provide some certainty into the marketplace so that organizations such as yours can move forward and make plans, farmers can move forward and make plans so we get some stability so that farmers can take the benefits and do what they want with them.

Really, I want to compliment you on your proposals, and I look forward to working with you and your organization as we move forward, because you've brought forward some very positive suggestions. I think we're going to see this come across the prairies in a similar fashion. We'll see all sorts of organizations like the farmer-owned inland terminals, for example. I think they'll be looking at this and looking for opportunities to work together, maybe with an organization such as yours or the new entity, as they see fit. That's the beauty of freedom. They can do what they want when they have the freedom to do that, and I think farmers will definitely be the beneficiaries of it.

Mr. Friesen, the topic of Churchill always comes up. I know your organization has actually used Churchill to receive fertilizer. What's your impression of Churchill and the role of Churchill as you move forward with your organization? Do you see a role for it? What would you expect the impact to be, or do you have any insight into that?

10:45 p.m.

Farmers of North America Inc.

Bob Friesen

Certainly, as you already said, I think we brought four or five ships of fertilizer in. If fertilizer is brought in, of course it makes ultimate sense that you would carry something back out. Certainly aggregating grains, and using Churchill, if that worked with the input side, would be an opportunity we would look at.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

You're actually not a big organization. Well, I shouldn't say that. For the group you are, you definitely punch way above your weight. You were not scared to compete with the Monsantos of the world, for example, when you brought in your generic glyphosate.

You don't see any problems in competing, as far as having two or three dominant players forcing you out of the marketplace. You seen to have been able to find your niche and move forward. Do you also see that happening here?

10:45 p.m.

Farmers of North America Inc.

Bob Friesen

Well, that is a challenge. If you have two hours, we can go into how we built the pesticide industry. But that is a concern. Again, I think the power will be in the weight of the farmers who will be part of any group.

Mr. Storseth asked earlier if we would you see ourselves competing with a new Canadian Wheat Board. I wouldn't see one farm organization competing against another farm organization with regard to this. I would see more of an alliance building. The more alliances we can build, the more power we would have against a consolidated grain industry.

Quite frankly, we would like to see far more farmer ownership in grain handling. We lost it, as you well know. We lost it in western Canada. We would really like to see more of that back in the industry.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Again, those options will be there in the open market for them do that, if they so choose.

Chair, Ms. Ashton made a comment in the last meeting about the impact of corporate share prices. She said the values of companies such as Cargill have gone up. I'd like her to table the evidence that Cargill's share value has gone up in value. I'd like to know exactly where she got that information. So if she could table the document that shows Cargill's share price actually going up, I'd appreciate it.

10:45 p.m.

An hon. member

Viterra too.

10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

No, I'm just looking for Cargill's. We can get Viterra's from the newspaper any day of the week. With Cargill being privately owned by a family, I'm curious how she knows.

I assume, Chair, that you'll have her do that.

10:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

She is welcome to table documents, if she so chooses, in response to your request. It is a consideration for debate. I don't know of any precedent where one member of Parliament can demand that another member of Parliament table a document.

10:50 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

I don't want to demand anything; I'll just politely ask her to table the document.

10:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

I think your point has been made. I noticed Ms. Ashton was paying attention, so we'll leave it up to her as to whether she wants to provide that information to the committee for the purpose of debate.

But to continue with your time, Mr. Hoback, you've got about 40 seconds left.

10:50 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Mr. Friesen, in the northeastern part of Saskatchewan, where my riding is, we talk about shortlines and rail lines. There are quite a few shortlines in my riding. You talked about how you could work together with them to provide a more efficient delivery system.

There's one line that has been abandoned for quite a few years, and that has actually come up in an abandonment process. I know a lot of the producers in my area are excited about it, because it creates that link going straight to Churchill—basically Tisdale, Hudson Bay, up to The Pas, to Churchill. That's where the grain comes out of my area. The numbers are all over the map, but they can save roughly 15 bucks a tonne by doing that.

All of a sudden, it makes commercial sense for the grain out of my area to go to Churchill. Do you see FNA having a role in that? If so, what would that role be?

10:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blaine Calkins

Thank you, Mr. Hoback. Your time has expired.

Mr. Friesen, we'll hear your answer and we'll move on.

10:50 p.m.

Farmers of North America Inc.

Bob Friesen

Could I refrain from answering that question, Mr. Hoback?

Again, that's something we're looking at in the task force. For competition reasons, I would rather not mention it, but perhaps we can talk about it later.