Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on May 18th, 2006

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Regardless of subject matter.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Okay. Please proceed.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

You are most probably aware of the work of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, since you are the Information Commissioner. Have you heard any talk of the committee's intention of sitting at irregular hours or of increasing its pace in order to speed up the review and passage of new Access to Information legislation?

[John Reid]

I am not aware of any of those details, Mr. Chairman.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Therefore, the haste in having one committee study a given bill has not necessarily been reproduced in the case of another committee in charge of studying another bill the importance of which appeared to be just as great during the election campaign.

[John Reid]

Mr. Chairman, as an old member of Parliament, I understand that all committees are masters of their own fate and set their own work patterns as they see fit.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Between you and me, Mr. Reid, the Standing Committee on National Defence will be dealing with the reasons why we should be sending off our men and our women on these missions and investing 4 billion dollars. The Conservatives view this study as so important that the committee will sit four hours a week whereas ours will be sitting 23 hours a week. Furthermore, the work of the Standing Committee on Access to Information will be delayed while we carry out our study of Bill C-2. That just goes to show where their priorities are.

I have no further questions. Thank you.

[J. Leadbeater]

I think it's important for the members of this committee to keep in mind clause 229 of Bill C-2, which allows the government, by order in council, to fix the date of coming into force of these provisions that bring new entities.

I have heard some talk, and maybe government members can clarify for you, that there really is no intention of bringing any of these new entities under this Access to Information Act until a complete review of the open government act, and so forth, is completed by the other committee, and we have no idea when that is. At least that has been part of the briefings that other public servants have received that I've heard of.

So the issue of the timing I think is important. That is, this adding of new institutions, however modestly they've been added, with these exemptions, when are they really going to be added? It's cabinet and not royal assent that will decide when those provisions come into force.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Chairman, may I ask another question?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Sure. You have 15 seconds.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Once we have finished our clause by clause study of the bill, we will unfortunately no longer have the time to invite you back before the committee.

Once we have finished hearing witnesses, would you please send us your comments in writing, in the form of a brief, in order to share with us your concerns and suggestions?

[John Reid]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Monsieur Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Reid, I would like to ask you a very precise question.aFreedom of the press is what we call the fourth power that we can exercise in the name of democracy. Earlier, you were asked if you were in agreement with the existence of a free press and if you believe that journalists' sources should be protected.

As Information Commissioner, do you believe they should be? We are all well aware that this is sensitive information. Do you see what I am getting it with my question?

Once you have given your answer, I will have another question for you.

[John Reid]

Mr. Chairman, in the open government act I provided a clause that protected CBC journalists. That seemed to be demanded by the committee and by others, so that clause was there. It provided that protection in a discretionary way, with an injury test, to make sure that everything was done so that information could come out that should come out, subject to the injury test.

I believe that's the way to go to protect journalistic integrity. It is the way we deal with the RCMP, CSIS, and national security. I think that's an appropriate test for CBC journalists and for their programming.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Reid, when Pierre Elliott Trudeau's government enacted the War Measures Act, the Access to Information Act did not exist. You were a member of that government and, from 1978 to 1979, you were Minister of State responsible for federal-provincial relations. Today, you are saying that the law is not transparent enough. However, we have for 23 years now been trying to obtain information with regard to the enforcement in Quebec of the War Measures Act and we have yet to get an answer.

Do you believe that Bill C-2 could resolve this situation?

[John Reid]

No, Bill C-2 would not provide an answer to that question, but I'll ask Mr. Leadbeater to comment on that.

[J. Leadbeater]

It's interesting that the cabinet confidence exclusion currently in the legislation is only operable for 20 years. The 20 years is long past for the War Measures Act issue, so a lot of those records are currently in the process of review, and insofar as they are cabinet confidences, they will be disclosed. We have seen quite a few records relating to the invocation of the War Measures Act--the reasons and the discussions, who was present in cabinet, and so forth--that are now public.

But you raise an interesting point that there is no information, I think, that is worthy of secrecy forever.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

This meeting was scheduled to end a few minutes ago.

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for appearing. I know that the committee be looking at your proposed amendments very carefully.

Thank you again for coming.

This meeting is adjourned until Monday, May 29, at 3:30, in this room.