Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on May 4th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

He appreciates your help, Mr. Martin.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Technically, how does the government have the right to exercise any auditing function once the transfer of money has been made from the Government of Canada to a First Nation? By what authority do you add that clause?

[Joe Wild]

The follow-the-money authority of the Auditor General works by way of contractual obligations that would be deemed to be terms of contracts between the government and those who are defined as recipients.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Wouldn't you agree that First Nations are unique?

[Joe Wild]

Included in that definition of recipients would be those aboriginal bodies that are not listed in the schedule of the Federal Accountability Act, which are those aboriginal bodies that have self-government agreements that have been ratified by an act of Parliament.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Sir, the authority you're citing is the authority you will be creating with Bill C-2. There is no such authority currently.

[Joe Wild]

I'm talking about a contractual relationship.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

It's not a contract.

[Joe Wild]

If the funding agreement between the government and the recipient contains clauses that give the government the contractual right to require the recipient to provide information and audit what has gone on within the project that has been funded... it is that vehicle I'm referring to. That exists today, by and large, in most funding agreements. If under those funding agreements the government asks the Auditor General to go in and perform the audit that was contemplated under those agreements and the Auditor General agrees to do that, she can do so, again by way of contractual right.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

So the Auditor General could then review the audits that First Nations submit already by agreement. Every first nation does have to submit audited statements by the end of every year. I should point out that 96% of them do in fact submit them on time and without incident. So would the Auditor General then just scan those audits as they are submitted to the government?

[Joe Wild]

The follow-the-money authority is contemplated as being one where the Auditor General would be able to inquire into the use to which the recipient had put those funds within that funding agreement.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay. Well, I--

[Joe Wild]

It allows her to go to the recipient to see what's happening on the other side of the equation, as she is auditing the grant or contribution program the department is delivering.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Wild.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

That's the information I needed. I can serve notice that we will be opposing that tooth and nail. But we won't take that up with you; we'll take it up with your superiors.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

The time has come to an end, Mr. Wild and Ms. Cartwright. On behalf of the committee, I thank you very much for coming and answering some very difficult questions.

Ladies and gentlemen, there will be a subcommittee meeting of representatives from all caucuses and myself--the appropriate notices will be sent out--on Monday at 3:30. That will be in the West Block, room 307.

Unless there are any other questions or comments by anyone, this meeting is adjourned until Tuesday, May 9, at 9 o'clock. Thank you very much.