Evidence of meeting #25 for Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Joe Wild  Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Treasury Board Portfolio, Department of Justice

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I call the meeting to order, please. Please take the cameras out. We can't have cameras in here, I'm sorry. It is being televised, but I don't want a camera facing me when I'm doing all this.

This is the legislative committee on Bill C-2, meeting number 25. The orders of the day, pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, April 27, 2006, are Bill C-2, an act providing for conflict of interest rules, restrictions on election financing, and measures respecting administrative transparency, oversight, and accountability.

We're continuing with clause-by-clause. We are on amendment NDP-9.3, page 119.5.

(On clause 144)

Mr. Martin.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Chair, I'd like to move amendment NDP-9.3 found on page 119.5, which amends clause 144 by simply adding a “for greater certainty” clause, so that there can be no question that the intention is that the Canada Race Relations Foundation and the Public Sector Pension Investment Board are considered by this legislation to be parent crown corporations for the purposes of this act. We dealt with and tried to identify what we consider to be parent crown corporations, and the inclusion of this simple language will leave no doubt about that.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Poilievre, go ahead, please.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

I'd like to introduce what will likely be considered a friendly subamendment. It starts above Mr. Martin's original amendment. It starts before “For greater certainty”, and it reads as follows:

For greater certainty, any provision of this act that applies to a government institution that is a parent crown corporation, applies to any of its subsidiaries within the meaning of section 83 of the Financial Administration Act.

It speaks for itself.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Sauvageau, go ahead, please.

3:35 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Repentigny, QC

Could one of our experts tell us whether it would be good legislative drafting to use “tout ce qui ressemble à quelque chose”? It seems vague, but I may be wrong.

Let the light be...

3:35 p.m.

Joe Wild Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Treasury Board Portfolio, Department of Justice

It may assist us to quickly place the amendment and subamendment in context. Paragraph (b) of the definition of “government institution”, as introduced in subamendment NDP-9.2, said:

any parent Crown corporation, and any subsidiary of such a corporation, within the meaning of section 83 of the Financial Administration Act.

The “For greater certainty” part of NDP-9.3, about the Canadian Race Relations Foundation and Public Sector Pension Investment Board, is necessary because those are two crown corporations that, in their own enabling legislation, say that part X of the Financial Administration Act doesn't apply to them, which is where this section 83 reference in the definition comes into play. This is necessary to make sure that those two crown corporations are included for the purposes of the Access to Information Act.

The subamendment that's been proposed says that under this definition we're including subsidiaries and parent crowns, and if you are a subsidiary of a parent crown, then any of the provisions of the Access to Information Act that apply to the parent would equally apply to the subsidiary. For example, if there was a specific exemption for a parent, the subsidiary would also be able to use that specific exemption. So it just follows in line, given the lines of business they're in.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Owen.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

I'd like to ask the additional question then: does the subamendment deal with the concern raised in the amendment, by raising these two organizations specifically?

3:35 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Treasury Board Portfolio, Department of Justice

Joe Wild

With the subamendment, what you have are two greater certainty provisions happening in proposed section 3.01 now. You have the first, which is clarifying that any of the provisions of this act that have been written to apply to a parent crown corporation also apply to any of that parent crown corporation's subsidiaries. Then Mr. Martin's proposed amendment is saying that the Canadian Race Relations Foundation and the Public Sector Pension Investment Board are parent crown corporations for the purposes of this act. So the proposed section 3.01, the first part that has been introduced, applies to the Race Relations Foundation and the PSPIB, as well as does the entire Access to Information Act. That's what's happening here with these greater certainties.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Okay. I'm sorry, but I was thinking Mr. Martin's was the amendment and Mr. Poilievre's was the subamendment.

3:35 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Treasury Board Portfolio, Department of Justice

Joe Wild

Correct.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

But yours does not delete or obviate the other?

3:35 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Treasury Board Portfolio, Department of Justice

Joe Wild

It was adding to it.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Adding to it, good.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

For NDP-9.3, we have a subamendment.

(Subamendment agreed to)

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We move to the Liberal amendment, L-15.

Ms. Jennings, Mr. Owen.

Sorry, before you start, I might just draw your attention that there's a line conflict with NDP-10.

Mr. Owen.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Yes, I have a note on that. I don't believe this is going to be necessary if NDP-10 is passed. So I would withdraw this amendment at this point.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Martin, we're on NDP-10.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to withdraw NDP-10 as well.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We now go to a new clause 145.1 and NDP-10.1.

Mr. Martin.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Chairman, this amendment proposed by the NDP seeks to add section 145.1 on page 112 of Bill C-2. After line 25, we would include....

If I had an English version of this bill it would be easier for me to explain.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Just move it, sir.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

All right. I'll just move it for now and we'll get into the substance after the fact.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Well, I have bad news, as I'm going to rule it inadmissible.