Evidence of meeting #25 for Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Joe Wild  Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Treasury Board Portfolio, Department of Justice

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Where are they? We need to know what those other amendments are, Mr. Martin.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Actually, Mr. Chairman, I'm afraid I've misread this.

We have comprehensive amendments for the National Capital Commission. I've confused the two. This is the NAC.

We seek to delete this paragraph for our own reasons.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Then this one is not withdrawn. Are you proceeding with it, sir?

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Yes, we are proceeding with amendment NDP-15.1.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Are you finished, sir?

Is there any further debate?

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

If you need further information, I can provide it.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Poilievre, on amendment NDP-15.1, sir.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

As I understand it, this deals with a special exemption that was carved out for the NAC. The amendment proposed by the NDP, as I read it, would remove that exemption so that there would be no special exemption for the NAC. In the interest of greater transparency, our members will be supporting this amendment.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Martin, further discussion.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

I'm sorry for the mix-up at the start of this motion. The fact is we don't believe the NAC needs or deserves this special exclusion given the nature of the enterprise and the operation. The current Access to Information Act has protection for commercially sensitive information. The Information Commissioner can rule certain information shall not be released based on that commercial sensitivity. We believe the National Arts Centre is adequately protected by the existing act, and therefore there's no need for this clause. So we seek to have it deleted.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

You want to take it out. Okay.

All those in favour of NDP-15.1?

(Amendment agreed to on division)

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We'll move to NDP-16 on page 130. Mr. Martin.

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Chairman, I'll move NDP-16, found on page 130 of the workbook. It's an amendment to clause 150 on page 114. It replaces line 27 with the language "the advice or information as confidential and if the record came into existence less than twenty years before the request was made".

Page 114, line 27 deals with investment information from the Public Sector Pension Investment Board, which gives the exclusion to them as contemplated for the National Arts Centre and other places that have commercially sensitive information.

Could I have a one-minute recess, Mr. Chairman?

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Okay. We'll suspend for a couple of minutes.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

All right, we'll reconvene.

We're at NDP-16. Mr. Martin, go ahead, please.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

I would like to withdraw NDP-16.

(Amendment withdrawn)

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Then we will proceed to NDP-16.1, which is on page 130.1

Mr. Martin, go ahead, please.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd be happy to move NDP amendment 16.1 and then to speak to it briefly. This issue has been brought to our attention, Mr. Chair. We're seeking to change clause 150, I should explain for the record.

The head of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and senior staff came to the committee and made representation that it would put a chill on their opportunities to attract major investors if information could be accessed even after a 20-year cooling-off period.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Could I have some order? Mr. Martin is speaking.

Mr. Martin, continue, please.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you.

We were sympathetic to the representations made by the chair of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board that it may in fact be difficult for them in a very competitive investment market to attract the kinds of investors they're seeking if those investors had any fear that even 20 years down the road their private information might be disclosed through an access to information request. We are sympathetic to the fact that it's a very highly competitive market and any small thing may alter their choice to invest.

So having said that, what we're seeking to do is remove any reference to the 20-year cooling-off period or shelter period, so it would now read that:

20.3 The head of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board shall refuse to disclose a record requested under this Act that contains advice or information relating to investment that the Board has obtained in confidence from a third party if the Board has consistently treated that advice or information as confidential.

In other words, they would be able to maintain the status quo that no one has access to that information, for good reasons and for the benefit of all of us, because this is the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board that we're dealing with, and we all have a vested interest in its ability to operate effectively.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Okay, we're going to vote on NDP-16.1.

(Amendment agreed to on division)

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We're going to move to NDP-16.2, which is on page 130.3. Is that different? What is that? We'll let Mr. Martin tell us.

Mr. Martin, we're on NDP-16.2, page 130.3. It looks awfully familiar, but maybe it's not.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

It does, doesn't it?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I don't want to influence you. It just looked familiar, but maybe it's not.

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

No, there's a substantial difference, and I would like to withdraw 16.2.