Evidence of meeting #27 for Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
In English, is that “indications” or “considerations”? I just want to make sure.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
The wording was “shall take into consideration.”
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Okay, “shall take into consideration”? I'm sorry, Ms. Jennings, I want to make sure I understand what you—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
I believe the interpreters might be able to be better place this in English: “the government shall take into consideration any such material failure”.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
“, and the government shall take into consideration any such material failure”.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Or “any such identification”? Because in French, it's much easier. I'm not—
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
I may be able to help, Chair.
If we say “any such information” in English, that will get us away from any difficulty about whether the identified material failure is actually true or not.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
“, and the government shall take into consideration any such information”. Is that what you're suggesting?
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
First, I think the first part of my subamendment, which is changing the word “may” to the word “shall”, would take care of a lot of the anxiety amongst many politicians, and also amongst many ordinary Canadians: that in fact the government may not, through the Governor in Council, set up the Public Appointments Commission. I think this would take away that anxiety.
As you can see in NDP-22A, there is no deadline as to when the Governor in Council creates this Public Appointments Commission. So since there is no such deadline, the word “may” creates even more anxiety that it may never actually take place. I think changing the word to “shall” would alleviate some of the anxiety that the government may not go forward, through the Governor in Council.
The second part of the subamendment is simply to ensure that the government is seized with it and, in any decision it may take or not, takes that into consideration—that the government considers any identification of material failure. That's all.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Well, I have a list.
Mr. Martin, and then Mr. Poilievre.
Is this a point of order, sir? Mr. Martin.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I've only asked for the floor so I could clarify something. Let there be no doubt that I'll answer Mr. Murphy's question. This was drafted by people in my office, from Ed Broadbent to a man named Rarihokwats—who is my adviser and I think is here—to Ian Wayne. We wrote the language of this amendment.
When we submitted it to the clerk, she inadvertently wrote G-53 or something on it, and that's the first time you saw it. We immediately had that fixed and our amendment labelled properly, NDP-22A, so now you have another one. They are identical because they are our amendment. So just in case there was some thought that this amendment was drafted by government and put under the NDP name, it was not. I don't blame you for the misunderstanding, but I wanted to clarify it.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
May I respond and thank Mr. Martin for that clarification, because he is right. There was a doubt on the part of at least the Liberal members, but I appreciate the explanation.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Point of order. I was going to suggest Mr. Martin to proceed, but Mr. Poilievre.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
All right. I find it interesting that Ms. Jennings would propose this amendment moments after she and her party proposed a motion that used the following language: “The Governor in Council may establish a Public Appointments Commission”. That was Liberal amendment 26. I'm not going to comment on the motivations of this new epiphany that it's suddenly necessary to change “may” to “shall”, when moments ago she voted for “may”, and in fact wrote “may” into her original document.
But staying focused on NDP-22A, I'd like to have some more clarification of what—
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Wait a minute. We're on a point of order. I have a list. Mr. Martin has the floor. You can't jump in like that.
Yes, Mr. Martin.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
If I could, I was going to start my remarks with that one point of clarification, and I did understand that, Pierre, yours was a point of order, so I'll just finish my thoughts on this.
I'm actually satisfied, as the mover of this motion. I believe that what we've chosen is very common language. It was drafted by the people in my office, who were very adamant that this get implemented. What it does is lay the foundation. It is the enabling language so the government can, in its authority, create this commission, and we have every confidence that it will after being directed to do so by this bill.
So I'm not going to support the subamendment, but I do urge committee members to support the amendment.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I think my comments were made earlier. I might add that accidentally I thought I actually had the floor, but that being as it is, I'm happy to go to the question.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Okay, we're going to go to the subamendment.
(Subamendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
4:35 p.m.
Some hon. members
Hear, hear!
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
(Clause 228 as amended agreed to on division)
(On clause 229--Order in council)
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
There's a New Democratic Party proposed amendment, NDP-22.01, page 173.1, that there will be a line conflict with L-27.
Mr. Martin.
Mr. Owen, on a point of order.