But it does make the process difficult to move unless you can shake it up in some way, because those people who have levers are not all that enthusiastic about it. Even if—even if—in their heart of hearts they think this is the right way to go, it's still hard to whip up a great deal of enthusiasm for something that's going to chip away at your own power and influence at the end of the day. Fair enough, you know.
On May 14th, 2008. See this statement in context.