Evidence of meeting #18 for Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ethanol.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chair, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association
Thank you for the question.
I'm not sure what you're getting at in terms of pollution. In the production process of ethanol the emissions are negligible, and when you see a plume from an ethanol plant it's essentially steam. The waste water that comes from it—
Bloc
Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Or other products generated by… Do you not need a certain number of products, of pesticides, in certain instances, to produce ethanol? I am thinking about corn, for example.
Chair, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association
True. When you grow corn or you grow any crop, you use herbicides, pesticides, and fertilizers. The fact of the matter is that the use of those agents for growing crops has been reduced significantly over the years through policies of government, through land management programs, but also because of the advancement of technologies in nitrogen fertilizers. Those fertilizers have been reduced significantly over the last 10 years going into growing crops.
On a net basis, though, ethanol and biodiesel are renewable fuels that reduce greenhouse gas emissions. If there are increased uses of nitrogen in growing corn because you're growing more corn, that's undeniable, that's a fact, but the fact of the matter is that the trend is away from using more fertilizer.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Laurie Hawn
Thank you, Mr. Baker.
We'll have to move to on Mr. Cullen, for seven, please.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you. I have a quick question to Mr. Baker to follow up on that.
I think essentially we're trying to drive a full life cycle analysis of what it is to use each particular fuel. Is your company, is your agency, willing to subject itself to a comparison between, say, the biofuels and the ethanols being proposed and a barrel of oil out of the tar sands and do a GHG comparison? In terms of government policy, let's just make sure we get all our math right.
Chair, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association
The answer is absolutely. We do it all the time. Our own plants, from my company, have done a life cycle analysis on them recently, and it shows that there is a significant impact on the reduction of GHGs on a life cycle basis.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
But it's important to capture it all, not to simply say it's green, it's the perfect solution.
Chair, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association
Absolutely. Look, we're the first to say ethanol and biodiesel aren't going to solve climate change. There are some exuberant supporters of our industry out there who overstate the environmental benefits of ethanol all the time.
Chair, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association
It is, but there is a benefit, and that's undeniable.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I have one last short question.
Given this prospect of the 10¢ a litre for ethanol and 20¢ a litre for biodiesel that is being offered in the U.S., why, for heaven's sake, wouldn't our government offer a level playing field for production in Canada? These plants, as you said, are being built right now, just across the border in many cases.
Chair, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association
Right. The answer is I don't know. I hope they will. The budget's on March 19, and we hope—
NDP
Chair, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association
It's absolutely critical. The government has proposed a renewable fuel standard of 5% in the gasoline pool, which is great news for us, it's going to create huge demand.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
But the real benefit is in the production side, is it not, in the actual manufacture of the thing?
Chair, Canadian Renewable Fuels Association
Correct. The real benefit is making sure the plants are built here in Canada, and that's what we hope the budget will achieve.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Let's hope so.
Ms. Clarke-Walker, in terms of the people you represent--I think this is something important for the committee to consider--you've talked about a green industrial strategy, you've talked about transition programs. Much of the lightning rod attention has gone into northern Alberta over the oil production, the increase in production there.
What are the views of the workers you represent from that particular region, one that has had so much attention, oftentimes so much negative attention, around the issue of climate change and Kyoto? What is the position of those workers with respect to Kyoto obligations, with respect to transitioning away from heavy polluting fuels?
Executive Vice-President, Canadian Labour Congress
I'm going to let Mr. Jackson answer, but I want to say that we've just gone through a number of task forces and committees, with members from that region on those task forces and committees, and all of them are in favour of all of the various green strategies and policies that we've put forth over the years. So I know they are—
Executive Vice-President, Canadian Labour Congress
This includes workers from Alberta who are in the sector, the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers, for the most part, and the Steelworkers, yes.
National Director, Social and Economic Policy, Canadian Labour Congress
Just to add to that, a major point of appearing before the committee is simply to make the point that when people talk about jobs being at stake if we deal seriously with climate change, we think it's important that the voice of workers is heard not endorsing that proposition.
The Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union endorses the Kyoto Protocol, is fully in support of this brief. They'd like to appear before the committee, in fact. They also have a very comprehensive energy policy, and they do represent a lot of workers in the tar sands sector.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
It's interesting for us as committee members. We've heard from many witnesses over time, and generally speaking--particularly industrial witnesses--they will point to another industrial sector and say, the problem is over there, not with us, and if you want to fix this, go talk to them, but leave us alone. It's interesting that the people actually involved in the sector are supportive.
I want to get one comment from you, Ms. Clarke-Walker. You mentioned that a more efficient economy is more labour intensive. Can you or Mr. Jackson expand on that?
National Director, Social and Economic Policy, Canadian Labour Congress
Just to throw out one example, if we have building codes at a very high level in terms of energy efficiency, effectively you're putting a lot more labour into the construction of buildings up front and you're saving energy down the road. So you're really displacing a small amount of employment in, for example, power generation and very capital-intensive operations.
National Director, Social and Economic Policy, Canadian Labour Congress
For construction employment, building retrofits is a hugely labour-intensive activity. Tens of thousands of construction jobs potentially can be created if we deal with that.