I needed to respond, Mr. Chair, to some things the NDP member said. I was quite surprised by some of it, because he sat on the same environment committee I did over the last three years and knows some of the things that have happened and taken place.
I know about the pine beetle, and there's no question that if the pine beetle had been taken care of 10 years ago, when the size of the infestation was only as large as Parliament Hill, it would have taken maybe $100,000—though I'm not sure how much. It took this Conservative government to invest $1 billion in that.
I know about Kyoto and that it reflects the countries responsible for approximately 30% of greenhouse gases in the world, whereas the G-8 plus 5 represents countries emitting 70% of greenhouse gas emissions. In fact, he mentioned the U.S. and Australia and why they signed on to the Kyoto Protocol. Well, they're not part of that protocol any more, for practical reasons. Europe is in a different position from Canada and a different position from the United States. They have an economy that collapsed in eastern Germany and as a result they were easily able to meet their commitments—and in fact have excess to sell to other countries such as Canada, which costs taxpayers in Canada tremendous amounts of money. That's why, I would suggest, Australia and the United States pulled out and joined the G-8 plus 5. It's because Europe was definitely a winner under Kyoto, and will be a winner under any of these targets he is suggesting today.
One consideration that's not been brought forward by the member.... I know he said that we shouldn't consider the economy at all, as greenhouse gases have gone too far—which I agree have gone too far—but I think we have to take into consideration the economy. We drive further in Canada than anyone else in the world; we have a colder climate than almost anywhere else in the world, and we are a primary producer. So we are distinctly different from Europe and other countries, which are easily going to meet the Kyoto Protocol. As well, they negotiated much better than we did at that point. I would suggest that most people who are aware of this know that. Indeed, Canada had much more stringent targets, but based upon our cold environment, our longer distances, and our being a primary producer, it was almost impossible to meet those targets—and we are being penalized.
We have heard from both sides on this issue, and I agree that we should lead, but we should also have considerations of what else is happening. We heard from experts on how much it's going to cost Canadians. We heard from experts on what we would have to do; in essence, what I heard is that we'd have to shut down our economy to meet those targets. That is a consideration I think government has to look at, because it is an issue of balance.
From what I heard from the member, in essence, the NDP is not worried at all about the economy and the economy should not be considered at all in this; it should just be based on science and the ramifications should, in essence, be dealt with by the Canadian taxpayer, as usual, based on bad decisions.
What I heard from the Bloc was in essence that it should be a territorial approach, because Quebec has hydro power, and that we shouldn't look at it as a country. Quebec certainly has advantages under that, because they're not the primary producer that other parts of the country are—and on which our economy, quite frankly, relies.
I understand why the Liberals want to move on, because they're ashamed of their record. Quite frankly, nothing was done for 10 years under the targets they imposed, so I understand why they want to move on and not talk about it, because it continuously brings up the fact that they did nothing even though they set their own targets.
I think we need to have this conversation and that we have to have a balance. As well, we have to have the discussion on what tools we're going to use and what balance we're going to have with these tools to affect the changes we want ultimately.
I agree with the member, but I have one final question, as I noticed he wants to raise his hand. Why is the NDP opposing a budget that brings forward such good things as fuel efficiency?
He talked about learning from examples. Europe has brought in fuel efficiency standards, and we brought those forward as a government, yet he's opposed to them. He's opposed to retrofits. He's opposed to this government's environmental plan. I don't understand why he says today that we should learn the lessons from around the world—which this government has done—and impose great new policies, and yet his party opposes the budget that brings in those great things.