Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on Feb. 12th, 2007

[David Martin]

That I couldn't tell you. I know they're radically increasing their renewable energy production as well.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In fact, in some places in China people are born and die without ever seeing the sky because it's so polluted.

[David Martin]

One of the biggest successes we're seeing now with the Kyoto Protocol is the clean development mechanism. The uptake in China for the use of that so-called flexibility mechanism under the Kyoto Protocol has been massive.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I understand, but on one side they're going to build coal-fired plants at a rate of one per week and do other polluting things, and we're going to send money over for them to build more efficient plants. It seems a little bit strange that we would invest money in technology there when we could invest money here to get our job right first, because we don't have our backyard cleaned up. And then we could send the technology.

[David Martin]

I don't have any argument. The environmental community has argued as strongly as anyone that we should be acting domestically first as a top priority, before we look offshore.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Has your group costed out the amount of money it would take to meet the Kyoto Protocol by 2008 to 2012? Have you had it professionally costed?

[David Martin]

No, we're not sure of the amount of money it's going to take. We are sure that the cost, however, will be much greater if we don't invest that money.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Long-term, absolutely.

Your group is suggesting to cut out 800 megatonnes per year, starting in 2007.

[David Martin]

We're at roughly 800 megatonnes. The figure was 758 megatonnes for 2004.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You're aware that the oil sands account currently for about 6% of the gross domestic product of the country.

[David Martin]

I'm not sure of that figure, no, but I'll take your word for it.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

They currently account for somewhere between 20 and 30 megatonnes. By my math, that's a pretty big chunk of the gross domestic product if we meet 800 megatonnes in this year alone.

Are we going to do that by nuclear? What are you suggesting we do it by? Solar cells? What kind of technology?

[David Martin]

First of all, we need to level the playing field. The oil sands have received undue support from the government, and I don't think the oil sector needs any more subsidies. I don't they need a 100% write-off for their capital costs in the oil sands—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

It's an accelerated capital cost write-off. It just accelerates what they can do long-term. It actually makes it occur more quickly. In essence, it's not a subsidy. It's just an accelerated depreciation that they can show on their books so that they can depreciate the property faster.

[David Martin]

I understand, but the physical reality of the technology is that it produces five times as many greenhouse gases as conventional oil. We shouldn't be incenting that kind of activity that has such an adverse environmental impact.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Okay, my last question, then. Your group and you have several quotes, which I have here, suggesting that nuclear should be shut down as well. Is that correct?

[David Martin]

Well, not shut down. We don't expect those plants would be shut down tomorrow, but we think they should be phased out as they reach the end of their lifetime, rather than reinvesting. We certainly think we should not be investing in new nuclear plants.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In fact, if your quote is correct—and I would suggest it is, based on this—“Nuclear power has been a tragic tale of false promises, inflated expectations, titanic costs, frightening accidents, and environmental nightmares”. Isn't that your quote?

[David Martin]

That is a quote, and an accurate one.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

And 50% of the energy consumed in Ontario right now is nuclear. Is that correct?

[David Martin]

No, about 40% to 50% of the electricity consumed is nuclear.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Electricity, yes, sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

That's it.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. Lussier, you have five minutes.