Canada-China Relations Committee on Jan. 20th, 2020

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here and to meet everybody. As a new member of Parliament, I want to say one reason I'm happy to be on this committee is that, first and foremost in my mind and in the minds of many of my constituents is the safety of the two Canadians who are detained in China. I think we need to not let go of the reason we're here and the reason we're talking about these very important issues.

I want to hear from the ambassador. I also want to hear from experts. I'm perfectly willing to read as much information as anybody wants to send us, but I also want to see them in person and be able to ask questions in person.

I think that time is of the essence—I agree with everybody here on that—but over the last year or so having watched on television what can happen in these committees, I do not want to see this devolve into a partisan, empty-rhetoric fight among political parties over political points.

On that note, I would like to say that, yes, we need to see the ambassador. When that ambassador can come to see us is going to be up to all of us. It is a democracy, after all. However, I'm very concerned and I do not want to see this become a political free-for-all. I think that it's important that we keep the safety of those two Canadians first and foremost in our minds as we go about our deliberations.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Ms. Alleslev, and then Mr. Albas is after Mr. Doherty.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

My fear is that this sounds like an opportunity to put it further into the future and to not, maybe, address the sense of urgency that we have been trying to achieve with the motion. I'm wondering how we might be able to ensure that there's a sense of urgency, rather than saying, “As soon as possible when the subcommittee meets, and we've met with other people, and, and, and, and...”, which could sound like sometime in the next century.

Obviously we want this to happen sooner rather than later. Obviously, we have somewhat of a disagreement on who should give us an overview first before taking a deep dive into each of the officials' areas of expertise. We understand the amendment you're putting forward, and we do want, obviously, the subcommittee to be able to do its work. How can we bound this so that it happens, I would say, in no more than a month, to ensure that we keep the sense of urgency on it? Perhaps there's another way of arriving at a point where we could do it even more quickly than that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair—

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

On a point of order, it seems to me there was a suggestion, but I didn't hear a subamendment. I'm just wondering whether there was a subamendment there or not. That may be a way for us to get out of this quickly. If there was a subamendment coming from the suggested date, I think that would be acceptable. I have said two weeks. You said up to a month. I just think we may be able to get out of this very quickly if there is a subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Doherty, do you mind if I go back to Ms. Alleslev?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have some information that might be pertinent to the committee, and perhaps a subamendment might come out of that. It is being reported that Ambassador Barton is indeed in Winnipeg at the cabinet retreat currently, with your colleagues, so he is in Canada.

We are here to work.

To Lenore, to your comment, first and foremost we must always be moving forward with that. The lives of Mr. Spavor and Mr. Kovrig.... Time is of the essence, which is why we put forward the motion that we speak to the most senior official who is informing our government, and to the rest of the officials, on the sensitivities and the situation analysis on the ground. If he is indeed in Canada—

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

He's not. He went back to China this morning.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I think we should confirm that. We should move to try to get Ambassador Barton at the earliest convenience.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Can I allow Ms. Alleslev to respond to Mr. Oliphant?

Or is it Mr. Albas?

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Albas can do two things at once here.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, I think I understand where members are coming from.

Perhaps a subamendment would be helpful in this case, and I hope that it is: “That the subcommittee meet no later than January 24 at the call of the chair.”

The committee can meet this week; we could probably just put that into it. I think you could just canvass the members. As long as the subcommittee happens this week then we can issue a report and then see that the business of the committee starts as soon as possible.

I will say, again, Mr. Chair, that people expect us to work together, but that also means productively, so let's not get tangled up in knots. Let's get the steering committee to meet this week and have the ambassador no later than February 7.

To me that is a good way to have things presented.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Chair, as a point or order, could I ask for a temporary suspension of the meeting so that we can discuss this subamendment to my amendment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order.

Colleagues, I think the public often doesn't understand—perhaps when the cameras are not on or when we're not in session—how members do operate in a collaborative fashion and work things out. It can't always be done, but sometimes it can.

In that spirit, Ms. Alleslev, over to you.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much and thank you to all colleagues. Sometimes having a logistics background is probably the most difficult part of doing some of these things.

Could I seek unanimous consent to withdraw the motion, the amendment to the motion and the subamendment to the motion so that I might present a new motion?

(Motion withdrawn [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

The new motion would read: “That the subcommittee on agenda and procedure meet as soon as possible; and that the committee be briefed by officials prior to the appearance of the Ambassador of Canada to the People's Republic of China; and that the committee invite the Ambassador of Canada to the People's Republic of China, Mr. Dominic Barton, to appear in person before the committee for a two-hour televised meeting no later than February 7, 2020; and that Mr. Barton be given 20 minutes to update the committee on the state of relations between Canada and the People's Republic of China; and, that the remaining time be allotted for questions and comments from the members of the committee.”

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, I think it's very important to note that today there are three members from British Columbia who made this possible.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Is that because there aren't 250 centimetres of snow in Vancouver or...?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

That's just how we do things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

We need to deal with the questions of the usual meeting time and the frequency of meetings.

As for the time, I am advised that a special committee has priority on rooms and on being televised. We can meet any time we want to, but we only have priority on these times: from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. on Mondays, from 8:45 a.m. to 10:45 on Fridays, and from 5:30 to 7:30 p.m., Monday to Thursday.

What would committee members prefer?

Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I know this is important because we want to know when we'll be working, but two of our vice-chairs are not here. Mr. Harris and Mr. Warkentin are not here. With that in mind, I think this issue is probably best left to the subcommittee, especially since we don't know the vice-chairs' schedules.