Canada-China Relations Committee on Aug. 11th, 2020

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

What has been the public reaction within Hong Kong to the national security law? Has there been any polling taken? I know this must be very difficult. How are people in Hong Kong demonstrating their opposition to the law, if at all? I'm sure they must be very worried.

[Cherie Wong]

Citizens' Press Conference actually did a survey with 370,000 respondents, and 98% do not support the national security law. We see overwhelming sentiment that this national security law is effectively ending the constitution and the basic rights of Hong Kong citizens.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Ms. Zann.

Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to sincerely thank all the witnesses who are taking part in this meeting today and who have the courage to appear at these hearings of the Special Committee on China-Canada Relations.

As we all know, their lives and safety may be affected by this appearance. We are extremely grateful for their willingness to contribute to the work of the committee. My thanks to them once again.

Most of the witnesses have raised the possibility that Canada could welcome more Hong Kong nationals. My question is quite simple. How can this proposal have any practical impact, given that the political authorities in Hong Kong and the People's Republic of China are very likely to prevent all departures of opponents from Hong Kong territory? We know full well that there is a risk that the opposition will be prevented from leaving Hong Kong and coming to Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Bergeron, could you specify for whom your question is intended?

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

It is for anyone who would like to respond, but I could ask Ms. Fung first.

[Gloria Fung]

A few weeks ago, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson expressed that they may bar Hong Kong people from departing from Hong Kong.

Also, many of the high-profile social activists, such as Mr. Martin Lee, who is considered to be the father of democracy in Hong Kong, and even Jimmy Lai, as well as Joshua Wong, etc., have had their passports confiscated by police in Hong Kong. There is no way for them to be able to get out of Hong Kong unless there is collaboration among like-minded allies to provide a special tunnel to Hong Kong for them to get out, just like what happened right after the Tiananmen massacre in 1989.

When a lot of those social activists from mainland China arrived in Hong Kong, through a collaboration among different embassies in Hong Kong, they managed to get out of Hong Kong. I think this is one way Canada can consider. Collaboration with other allies in Hong Kong is of utmost importance.

The other possibility is that I think before anyone's passport is going to be confiscated, it is also important for us to offer them the safe harbour program so that they can also get out of Hong Kong as soon as possible. If they wish, they can stay here, at least temporarily, or even seek residency.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Wong, I see your hand up.

[Davin Wong]

Thank you.

I would just like to add to what Madam Fung just mentioned. She has already covered the situation for well-known and high-profile activists. However, I can also explain a little about how the Hong Kong government can practically prevent someone from departing from Hong Kong.

To confiscate one's passport in Hong Kong, there are normally, or most commonly, two conditions right now. The first one is a bail condition when someone has been arrested. The second one is that when they are being investigated under the new national security law, the national security law also grants the police agency the right to confiscate their passport.

At the same time, I'd like to draw the committee's attention to the many non-high-profile activists who may not have had their passports confiscated yet, but they have no financial or material means to leave Hong Kong or to resettle in Canada. By amending our existing program to lower the time barrier and other requirement barriers, we can actually allow them to quickly and in time resettle in Canada.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Chair, I believe Ms. Wong also wanted to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Ms. Wong, please go ahead.

[Cherie Wong]

Thank you.

What is recommended here is not only about refugee pathways, because outside of refugee pathways we still have immigration pathways, we still have education pathways and we still have employment pathways for foreigners to come to Canada. I think our urgent situation is looking at all the options that are available for Hong Kongers to take and identify and address those barriers on a larger basis. We don't necessarily have to create a new strategy. We just have to look at what exists now and how can we use that system most effectively.

I think, adding to what Davin has mentioned, most regular people have not necessarily had their passports taken. They still have a limited freedom of movement at the moment, but the window is closing fast and I think any action will be better.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Ms. Fung and Mr. Bergeron.

We'll now go to Mr. Harris for six minutes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing today.

It's an act of courage, particularly for Mr. Wong, who described quite strongly for us the consequences and his own circumstances in Hong Kong. Thank you for pointing it out to us. Thank you also for letting us know, and I think through us all Canadians know, Ms. Fung, that we ourselves are affected by this law, which purports to cover any Canadian or any foreigner who speaks out in a way they consider contrary to this national law and so underscores the importance of this issue.

When the 1997 agreement was put in place, Canada, along with other countries, promised to do our utmost to promote the continuing rule of law in Hong Kong and the autonomy of its institutions. That was over 20 years ago. Ms. Fung, are you are aware of any serious work that's been done in the last 20 years to promote this, or are we now dealing with something that we've neglected for 20 years?

[Gloria Fung]

Over the past 20 years, I have witnessed very little effort by our Canadian government to sustain the one country, two systems concept and all the core values, such as rule of law, freedoms, human rights and even democracy being promised to the Hong Kong people. The Chinese government has been breaking its promises all the time. For instance, the election with universal suffrage has been postponed forever, and now there's absolutely no hope, because even the Legislative Council that was scheduled to be conducted this fall has been postponed for one year.

It's really a shame, because the lack of response and the lack of exemplifying responsibility to hold China accountable for what it promises in its international treaty have led to the present situation in Hong Kong. I'm quite sure this will not be confined to Hong Kong, because when China can break promises towards Hong Kong, it can do the same to any other country, including Canada.

I think it's about time for the world to revisit a strategy towards China. We should all work together, particularly among the Five Eyes allies, to come up with a strong foreign policy towards China, and also hold China accountable for all the behaviour that is not rules-based, that does not conform to international rules and standards.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much. I couldn't agree with you more, and I also agree very much that there's a real sense of urgency. In particular, you talked about safe harbour measures that Canada should try to undertake very quickly. We also need to act quickly, I think, in dealing with the foreign interference that you and Cherie Wong have described.

Are either of you aware of any countermeasures or counteractions being taken in a coordinated way by the national police force, the RCMP, or CSIS in dealing with this kind of interference on Canadian soil, which appears to be widespread? Is anything going on that you're aware of, or is that something that we ought to look into more closely?

[Cherie Wong]

I think it's something we have to look into more closely. As you said, the RCMP and CSIS are bodies that are supposed to exist to protect us from these threats and this interference, but I don't believe they have all the tools and the proper understanding of how the CCP is operating. It's not necessarily a cheque in exchange for service; it is more malicious and sophisticated.

As many of the witnesses have said, we need an attitude change when dealing with China, especially with how they interfere with Canadian affairs. It's definitely more complex and it's across multiple sectors. It's not only the physical threats; this information campaign is also infiltrating media, academia and social media. There's a lot of sophistication behind their techniques, and I'm not sure Canada is ready to deal with this level of sophisticated interference.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You mentioned three universities: McGill University, the University of Toronto, and I believe Waterloo.

[Cherie Wong]

Yes.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Why did you mention them in particular, and what efforts ought the government to be making to deal with those issues?

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Please answer very briefly. We have 15 seconds.

[Cherie Wong]

There was a very detailed report done on PLA's co-operation with universities. I mentioned these specific three because they're the top 10 in the world in receiving collaborative projects with the PLA.

Sorry, I'm out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I'm sorry also, but that is how the committee rules work.

Mr. Harris, thank you very much. Your time is concluded.

Now, for the second round of five minutes each, we'll start with Mr. Chiu.

Welcome to the committee.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming to the committee and talking to us about how relevant Hong Kong's situation is to Canada.

Allow me to just play devil's advocate here a bit, because in the community, China has been telling through its mouthpiece that what happened in Hong Kong is purely a domestic issue and has nothing to do with Canada, and this is a Canada-China relations special committee, not a Canada-Hong Kong relations special committee.

Therefore, since I'm asking as devil's advocate, can you tell me why Canada-Hong Kong is a critical part of the Canada-China relationship here? What is the relevance of what's happening in Hong Kong, and why should we, as Canadians, care?

I'd like to ask the Canadian-based witnesses, ACHK, and then the Canada-Hong Kong Link, please.