Thank you.
To the first question, the answer is yes. It doesn't just apply to reaching out to foreign governments. It can even be aiding and abetting any kind of thing with foreign individuals. I recently testified in Hong Kong before the law society and I could point out to them that I am a foreign individual. There were many pro-Beijing figures on that panel. I said, you guys are, in effect, colluding with a foreign individual right now because if I say something that incites hatred towards Hong Kong or China, then you are a part of that collusion with me. Unfortunately, this committee could also be tarred with that.
When it comes to the mainland national security law versus Hong Kong's, oddly the Hong Kong one, in some ways, is worse because the mainland has a kind of principle that its national security law reaches foreign activity only if that foreign activity violates the laws of the country where it takes place, but under the Hong Kong national security law that's been enacted it doesn't matter that what we're saying here today is not violating Canadian law—or American law, for those of us sitting in the United States—it still reaches this behaviour. So if we actually advocate sanctions at this moment, we could be charged under that law, regardless of the fact that we are exercising our freedom of expression.
I think the other thing is that there is a lot of concurrence as well with the mainland system, because these officials now from the mainland are actually coming from the mainland state security and public security bureau. There are apparently going to be hundreds of them, so there is a kind of secret police and what they say and do is all secret. Even with regard to the charges against the people arrested this past week, we are really not clear on what the factual predicate is for the charges. We only have rumours based on the questions that were asked of them when they were interrogated.
This secrecy and this idea that officials are above the law, and whatever treatment you can have.... I didn't mention, because I didn't have time, that under this new law in Hong Kong if these security officials from the mainland want to, they can render you to the mainland for trial, so that if Hong Kongers and foreigners in Hong Kong, including Canadians who happen to be in Hong Kong, are arrested under this law and the mainland officials decide they want to bring them to China to try them, they can do so, which is why, of course, Canada terminated the extradition law.