Canada-China Relations Committee on Aug. 17th, 2020

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am predisposed to support the motion. However, Mr. Genuis's argument actually makes me more nervous about supporting it. He said he wants to do this because the ground could “shift” by the time we actually get to our major report, which means we could have an irrelevant report. I would need a clarification from him on why he thinks it would be better to have a report now, which I had been totally willing to support until he raised that argument counter to having a report now, because I don't want to look like an irrelevant parliamentarian who is making a report for the sake of making a report. That's not why I got elected to Parliament. I got elected to make a difference on public policy issues. If the ground is shifting, why wouldn't we want to make sure that we are going to do it? I'm still predisposed to support the motion, but that argument worries me.

Second, this would really fall under a point of order, Mr. Chair, as opposed to a point of debate. On a point of order, I would like you to rule on how long we will be in this portion of the meeting before we come to an end in order to hear from the witnesses who have been invited. The clerk mentioned 15 minutes, but I didn't hear from you. I think it would be fair for committee members, for our own preparation, as well as for invited witnesses to know when we will end this debate. We might have a reached a vote by then or not, but I think it would be fair for us to know that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I'm in the hands of the committee in that regard. Obviously, I'm anxious to get to the witnesses, but the committee members have the right to bring forward a motion and have it debated. That's where we are at the moment. I recognize the desire of some members to do that expeditiously.

By the way, I will let members know that I can see the hands now when they are raised.

Ms. Alleslev.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to echo Mr. Garnett Genuis and perhaps provide some clarification based on my understanding of what he said.

We were thinking that the landscape here at home, as a result of the minority government, might change at any time. We on this committee don't want our work to be lost and not have the opportunity to put it forward for the government to consider, as they or all parties might, if by some chance we found ourselves in an election.

There's no question that committees are incredibly important. We know that this China committee is very important, which is why we brought it back and are doing this incredible study in such an intense and compressed time frame. We believe that what we are learning is of value, and that Canadian citizens want to understand what we have learned. Part of the responsibility we as parliamentarians have is to provide that information in a report that informs and advises not only the government but also the Canadian public.

I would hate for us to just do a study for the sake of a study and not be able to provide that very important feedback in terms of a report that can be used by government and the Canadian public at large on such an important topic. That is why I think there is a sense of urgency, and that is why I think there is substantive value in providing a timely and comprehensive report on this subject so that we don't miss all this great work that we've done over the last few weeks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to speak in support of this motion for none of the reasons that Ms. Alleslev just referred to. In fact, if that were the reason, I wouldn't support it. The government is the government until it isn't.

The reason I'm supporting this, contrary to our normal role of “wait until we get it all, and let's talk about the relationship between Canada and China”, is that there is a sense of urgency to some of the measures that are being proposed, particularly those that would offer assistance to people who are now affected by these changes in the relationship with Hong Kong and between Hong Kong and Beijing. That's the reason for the urgency, in my view.

We should put what we have on the table so that the government can act, and we can try to influence the course of the government's activities while it is the government. That could be for longer than people think or it could be for shorter than people think, but that has nothing to do with my support for this motion. I think we should do it because it is important, but it is an exception to the overall thrust of having a report at the end, which we are all endeavouring to do. This is an exception as a result of the urgency of the matters before us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

Before I give the floor to Mr. Bergeron, I want to let him know that, fortunately, I can now see raised hands.

Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I totally agree with what Mr. Harris just said. Given what I said a few moments ago about Tibet, I should oppose this motion, which runs counter to the idea that we should have a single, holistic and comprehensive report on the entire situation. However, we have heard a lot of testimony leading us to make recommendations quickly to the Government of Canada, on immigration, for example, and we cannot wait until the end of our study. That's why I am in favour.

However, I reiterate that it is only an interim report, in my opinion. I hope that we will have the opportunity to make the necessary connections between the situation in Hong Kong and other situations, in Taiwan, for example, in the comprehensive report.

I will be supporting this motion for the reason I have just stated, and for that reason alone, because certain things can be done quickly to help activists who want to leave Hong Kong. That is the only reason I feel it is necessary to adopt an interim report on the situation in Hong Kong.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.

Mr. Genuis, your hand is still up. Do you wish to speak again?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I was going to speak, but I feel that I could make matters worse, and we already have a majority. I think it's probably in my own interest not to say anything further at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

That can be a very wise approach at times.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

It's one I rarely take, but thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Oliphant and Mr. Harris, I see that your hands are up.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'm sorry. I forget to lower my hand, but I agree with Mr. Genuis on that point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I want to emphasize that I consider this an interim report as well, although it's not called that, and it should not preclude us from referencing the situation in Hong Kong in our overall report at the end. We should probably make sure that, in whatever report we do prepare, it's directed at basically the here-and-now situation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

All right.

I don't see any additional hands. I see Mr. Oliphant's hand up, and Mr. Harris's, but I trust that those will be taken down.

Therefore, I'll call upon the clerk to proceed to the recorded vote, please.

[The Clerk]

Before I do that, I simply want to confirm that we can go until 2:15 this afternoon but no longer, because there is another committee in that room at three o'clock today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

I think we'd better try to be on time.

Madam Clerk, please proceed.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Mr. Harris, you have a motion, I believe.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't think this will take long. I would like to move the following:

That the committee invite officials from Global Affairs Canada to provide a briefing on the situation in Tibet and Canada’s relationship at the earliest opportunity as part of its ongoing study on Canada’s relationship with China.

I'll speak to it briefly, if you wish.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Yes, please do. Then I have Mr. Albas.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

This has been discussed with the vice-chairs. I believe there will be support for this. It's part of my understanding, and part of my support for the earlier motion, that we would insist and ensure that we hear more about China, in particular from officials as to the history. We got some of it from Mr. Virani today, but I would like to hear the officials give us the story about the relationship and whatever other evidence. I think a good place to start would be with the officials and at the earliest opportunity that presents itself.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you.

We'll have Mr. Albas and then Mr. Bergeron.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I will be supporting Mr. Harris's motion, although I don't think we really even need to have a vote. Quite honestly, I think there will be a consensus and we can move right to witnesses.

On that point, if we are going to have a debate on the motion, if you find it's in order, I would simply say [Technical difficulty—Editor] change our mind from the motion that was passed earlier, but I always believe that more information is important. In this committee, we are often asked by the rest of our members of Parliament to know a lot about every issue and every facet.

I will be supporting this. More information is good, in my mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In light of what I had the chance to explain a few moments ago, I am obviously in favour of this motion. It actually will allow us to go deeper into the problematic issue of Tibet, so that we can include it in our comprehensive report.