Canada-China Relations Committee on June 14th, 2021

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, we're not getting an answer, but I think the record shows that, so I'll move on.

With respect to co-operation with other labs or security policy, have any policy changes been made at your level since the events of 2019?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Again, Dr. Poliquin would be best positioned to speak to policy changes at the lab.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, have you made any policy changes? Has the government promulgated any policy changes?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Again, the lab has a responsibility to protect intellectual property and national security. That's why they have the processes in place. Perhaps Dr. Poliquin could speak to any evolving changes at the lab.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, I'm getting the impression that you are comfortable not making decisions about co-operation with foreign militaries or about security protocols because you believe that those decisions should be made at the local level, as opposed to by the Government of Canada. Is that correct?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I think, MP Genuis, that you should not put words in my mouth. What I'm saying is that the lab—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Am I correct or incorrect?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I would say that it is important that the lab follows national security protocol and protects Canadian intellectual property, as well as ensures that people have the appropriate screening to work at the lab. In fact, if you gave Dr. Poliquin a chance to answer, he would be able to speak to—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, that didn't happen in this case. There was some kind of a failure. We don't know what that failure was because you won't release the documents. However, there was some kind of a breakdown here, and I'm asking you, as the minister who's talking about the importance of national security, if you said that we needed to have a policy change here, or if you said that we'll just keep leaving things the way they are.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

MP Genuis, in fact, I fully released those documents in an unredacted fashion to the appropriate committee, so those documents are fully available for the House of—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay. I don't want to come back to that, Minister. I understand your view on the release of the documents.

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Order.

I'm sorry, Mr. Genuis, but I need to hear one person at a time. Of course, it is your time. I've stopped it for a moment. You get to do with it what you wish. If you ask a question, I do expect you to give a reasonable time for an answer, and up until now, I've been very happy with the way it's gone. Please proceed.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

Minister, I want to ask you a question about values. Do you think it's consistent with our values to engage in research co-operation on military applications with the military of a state that is currently, in the view of Parliament, committing genocide?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

First of all, I think I've stated my values, and I would feel safe to say that the values of the government are that human rights matter; a life free of violence matters, and a life of dignity matters. The work we do as a government is to try to push forward those values in everything we do.

In terms of collaborative research, again, there are protocols in place to protect Canadian researchers and Canadian research, and to do so in a safe way that protects the health and safety of Canadians.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, I appreciate that affirmation of values, because we—

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

MP Genuis, you actually asked me what my values were—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, and I'm responding. I said I appreciate that affirmation of values.

Let's make this practical, though. If we are transferring deadly viruses to military labs, and if we're allowing the presence in Canadian labs of Chinese military officials when that same military is involved in committing genocide, don't you think that co-operation conflicts with the value statement that you just made?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

There's a lot of conjecture in that question. I will just say that the fully unredacted—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Where's the conjecture?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

—documents have been provided to the appropriate committee for their review.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, please, where is the conjecture in my question?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

As I've said, the documents regarding this particular request from this committee have been provided in an unredacted way for NSICOP to review—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, that wasn't my question. Is it consistent with our values—

[The Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—to be supporting the research efforts of a military—