Evidence of meeting #4 for Canada-China Relations in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was kong.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan
Thank you, Mr. Ho and MP Chiu.
Mr. Dubourg now has the floor for six minutes.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Chu and Mr. Ho, for coming and giving your testimony today.
Mr. Ho, in your opening statement, you mentioned that there were a few groups. I was actually quite alarmed to hear about some of their actions. What further actions can we take towards these groups such as the United Front and the CBA, the Chinese Benevolent Association?
12:30 p.m.
Retired Editor-in-Chief, Sing Tao Daily, British Columbia Edition, As an Individual
First of all, we should recognize that there is a freedom of assembly for the social organizations here in the Chinese community. The focus should be on the foreign government interference and not on our Chinese society. The point is that we have no adequate policy or suitable method to prevent the foreign government's influence on this society. They have used a lot of United Front strategies to usurp those leaders of these organizations to take the political viewpoints of Beijing and then use these organizations to propagate the CCP's message here.
The second thing is that the foreign government treats Chinese Canadians as Chinese nationals. They use identity politics, so I guess our government should take a look at how these foreign agents, or simply the foreign government's ambassadors or countries generally, could have such influence and power to mobilize the local organizations to say the political viewpoints of China, but not to protect the national interests of Canada.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Do you feel that the Chinese press in Canada is also threatened or compromised in what it can report?
12:30 p.m.
Retired Editor-in-Chief, Sing Tao Daily, British Columbia Edition, As an Individual
I think the people here in the Chinese community are wondering which channels we could report through. Would it be CSIS? We don't have any FBI reporting line, and CSIS is not a kind of active government agency to tackle this problem. They are gathering information about some activities in this society, but they are not an active agent to do something. They just transfer the message to some government officials but not to MPs.
I recommend reforming the CSIS system.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
My next question is for Mr. Chu.
Over the past summer there have been many public demonstrations here in Canada in support of the Hong Kong protests, and we have seen how groups of pro-China counter-protesters show up at some of the same events. They've been described as carrying brand new Chinese flags with creases still visible and photographing pro-Hong Kong demonstrators. Just in the earlier hour we had a witness, Ms. Mabel Tung, mention that photos were taken at airports and events and that there was fear that facial recognition technology would be used for intimidation.
Do you feel that these are the actions of some angry counter-protesters in Canada or is there some sort of larger coordination of interference by the Chinese government?
12:35 p.m.
Founder, Canadians for Reconciliation, As an Individual
It's too much of a coincidence that during the rallies organized by those supporting the Hong Kong community here, in just about all cases, counter-protesters appear. That would be a very strange pattern. They come at almost the same time and leave at the same time, which raises at least a suspicion, whether or not they are orchestrated by something or someone.
As far as the threat is concerned, I think Canada in recent years has been seeing more and more appearances of threats, even being raised in Markham and Vancouver city halls.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Your organization has been focused on reconciliation. I'm wondering how we can reconcile those conflicting views towards China among the Chinese diaspora in Canada.
12:35 p.m.
Founder, Canadians for Reconciliation, As an Individual
One key thing about reconciliation is knowing the truth, because without the truth it would seem that no reconciliation is necessary. People will say things are fine, and then there's no need.
One of the basic things that we, as I mentioned earlier, are trying to do is to research and educate the public about the history of Chinese in B.C., just as it is with indigenous people; that's another area.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan
Thank you, Mr. Chu and thank you, Ms. Yip.
We'll continue with Mr. Bergeron for six minutes.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We've talked a lot about the impact of the PRC's tightening control over Hong Kong on pro-democracy protesters. We have also talked about the impact of the People's Republic of China's new attitude towards Chinese nationals abroad. I think it goes even further than that, since someone mentioned that one of the previous witnesses had been denounced by PRC authorities.
So now we can expect the People's Republic of China to crack down on people who are not even their nationals. We have seen, as you evoked in your presentations, that the PRC is using groups in Canada to put pressure on opponents of its regime and is even engaging in some harassment. Some witnesses have told us in previous meetings that even in Canada, we should fear possible kidnappings by the People's Republic of China.
What measures can be put in place by the Canadian government to, firstly, control these groups that are literally harassing people and promoting the Chinese Communist Party regime on Canadian territory, and secondly, to prevent possible actions such as kidnappings on Canadian territory?
12:40 p.m.
Founder, Canadians for Reconciliation, As an Individual
If I can try to answer this first, the government can do a number of things, because all the ministries at this point are operating without a good understanding of the national security risks to which Canada is exposed. At this point, as I described earlier, I seem to be running into a wall even when I try to lay a complaint at the right party, so never mind all the other ministries—for example, Heritage Canada. I mentioned that.
Also, then, there is multiculturalism, which has been made use of or exploited as a passport for expanding on the extension of certain messages. On immigration, we should start checking into the scholars or whoever is coming into Canada as to whether they have military backgrounds, as the U.S.A. has found out from the scholars who are from China.
There's a whole number of things that at the government level we can do, and we can stop funding organizations that on one hand receive funds from Canada and on the other hand are denouncing Canadian values. There's a whole number of things, but as far as kidnapping is concerned, that is out of my league. I don't know.... Until and unless CSIS is equipped to do more than just researching and there is some way of enforcing what they see as wrong...otherwise, that would be problematic.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
In the absence of an intervention from our other witness, I'm going to ask further questions.
We know that a site hosted by a Russian server called HK Leaks has already disclosed a fair bit of information about opponents of the regime, including 2,000 people considered guilty of various misdeeds against China.
Have Canadians living in Hong Kong also been subject to this type of Internet whistleblowing? What can be done to avoid such reports? We heard about WeChat earlier. Should we be concerned that Huawei could use this kind of thing on the Canadian 5G network?
12:40 p.m.
Founder, Canadians for Reconciliation, As an Individual
I will first jump in on Huawei. In my opinion, the risk posed by Huawei is far more than what people may think.
China's effort in recent years has been focused on collecting massive amounts of data. That data can be used for various purposes. Whether it is personal or commercial information and data secured by China, we don't know what they would use it for. That's the risk that China would take, and we would advise Canada not to engage Huawei.
As for WeChat, that is another platform that is doing a whole lot of monitoring on traces and terms, so it is not good.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Geoff Regan
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.
Now we go to Mr. Harris for six minutes.
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you, Chair.
First of all, Mr. Ho, you mentioned, and I think it is perhaps important to reiterate, that the use of the term “Chinese nationals” by various people within Canada instead of “Chinese Canadians” is a very distinct thing and it's an intentional tool to perhaps undermine the notion of Canadian citizenship.
Can you affirm that is what you said?
12:45 p.m.
Retired Editor-in-Chief, Sing Tao Daily, British Columbia Edition, As an Individual
What I said is about the party politics by Chinese consulates or Chinese ambassadors here in Canada. They use so-called “Chineseness” to lobby or to persuade the local Chinese Canadians to take sides on the real politics of China, to support their policies. The best example involves the national security law in Hong Kong. They try to mobilize as many social organizations as they can to post political statements in the Chinese newspapers, the Sing Tao Daily and Ming Pao Daily. They try to create confusion to say that the Chinese people—and I am using the Chinese people here in Canada—are supporting the national security law in Hong Kong. The new law is totally contrary to our Canadian values. Those Chinese Canadians are supporting a foreign government but they are living in Canada. The consulate tries to use these ideas and politics to make clear that the Chinese people living here in Canada also support the Beijing regime or the CCP. This is very tricky, you know.
12:45 p.m.
Retired Editor-in-Chief, Sing Tao Daily, British Columbia Edition, As an Individual
It works very effectively, because the people in Canada, especially the non-Chinese society, do not have enough knowledge to separate the Chinese nationals and the real citizens of Canada.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you. I have a further question for you on a related topic, but I would like to ask Mr. Chu a question first.
Mr. Chu, you gave a lot of information. We've been provided with something called speaking notes, which is actually 15 recommendations from you, and you didn't get a chance to talk about all of them.
Is there any one particular recommendation you would be sure to want to leave with us and leave with those who are perhaps tuning in to watch this event?
12:45 p.m.
Founder, Canadians for Reconciliation, As an Individual
I suppose the one regarding CSIS is high on my mind, because supposedly they are taking care of national security, or watching out for Canada anyway, and yet they are not empowered to do so. I think some vigorous changes need to be made. Otherwise, the way they are leaving the job to the RCMP to finish it is, to me, bad coordination.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
It may be that the national police force should have a different role or that CSIS should have a different role.
