Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank both Mr. Wright and Mr. McCallum for joining us tonight. We're honoured by your presence.
I'm going to start with Mr. McCallum. I just want to note that you're an accomplished academic and a practising economist. You're a seasoned politician and a long-time public servant. You served as Canada's diplomat in complex and difficult appointments. I want to begin by thanking you for that life of work.
Unlike my Conservative colleague, I am not going to interrogate you. I'm actually less interested in the past than I am in the future. You don't report to us, but what we would like you—both of you—to do tonight is to help us. We genuinely want to learn from you so that our committee can give a report to Parliament and to government that can actually further the relationship that Canada has with China.
I've been to China twice, once when you were an ambassador—and that was a good trip—and once when you weren't ambassador—and that was an okay trip. You've been to China many times, and you served for almost two years as our ambassador, so you know more than I do and, I think, more than anybody on the committee.
With the work of this committee, we've been hearing two stories.
On the one hand, we hear about the importance of engaging with China economically, socially and culturally. We hear about it in terms of the need of our farmers and their markets. We hear about it in terms of the relationship between scientists, researchers, academics and entrepreneurs, who want a relationship with China, and we hear about how that is a reality in today's world due to their sheer size and import.
On the other hand, we hear that they don't follow the rules. They're not predictable or dependable. The international rules-based order is not being followed. It's not a level playing field. We have concerns about how we are to accomplish that engagement, importantly, and deal with a partner who doesn't play by the same rules we would.
We're at the point now where Canada is looking into the future to say, “How do we do that?” I'm wondering if, given your experience, you can advise us. I think the government is very clear. It's writing a new China policy. The China of 2016 is not the same as the China of 2020. Is there advice you can give to us on how to deal with that dilemma?