Canada-China Relations Committee on June 19th, 2023

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

In terms of the due diligence involved prior to making these investments, are these equity or debt investments?

[Stéphanie Émond]

We actually do both. We can make loans and make equity investments directly or through funds. We conduct the same level of due diligence for all types of transactions.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Who would be your partners on the ground? Obviously, you wouldn't have individuals in every country or for every opportunity, but who are your partners on the ground when you are undertaking the due diligence in the ultimate investment decisions?

[Stéphanie Émond]

We invest primarily in partnership with our peers. These are other bilateral development finance institutions or multilateral development banks, like IDB Invest. However, we always conduct our own due diligence for environmental and social risk, as well as other risk factors. When warranted, we conduct on-site visits.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

That's it for me, Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you very much, Mr. Sorbara.

We will now go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes or less.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for joining us today.

Ms. Meyerhoffer, I'm happy to see you again. We've seen each other often in committee. In your opening remarks and in response to some of the questions, you mentioned that you were aware of several human rights violations in China, particularly in Xinjiang.

At the current time and with the powers you have, is you office able to influence the behaviour of Canadian companies in Xinjiang? I'd appreciate a concrete answer, if you please.

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

I believe we can be a factor. We've received 13 complaints that relate to forced labour in the Xinjiang area. We will be issuing some initial assessment reports in early July. We will do a couple in early July, and they will all come out over the coming weeks.

We will, perhaps, be doing some investigation with some of them. When we do the investigations, we will be able to highlight where the issues are and where the companies are getting caught up, and we'll be able to make recommendations to any of those companies that are found to be benefiting from forced labour in Xinjiang, on how they can rectify that situation.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

What are the tangible effects of the conclusions you come to in your reports about Canadian companies? You say that you'll be making recommendations. Will these recommendations have any real impacts on these companies? If so, what are they?

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

If, after we do an investigation, it is found that the company is in fact connected, through the supply chains or otherwise, and benefiting from forced labour, we will make some concrete recommendations to those companies to change their practices and improve their practices. You can imagine we'll have somebody doing human rights due diligence in a very rigorous way.

If the companies have not engaged or will not engage with us, or they do not follow the recommendations, we will make recommendations to the Minister of International Trade with respect to imposing trade measures and financial measures.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Do you have an example of an investigation you've led that's had an effect on a company?

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

To answer that question, the CORE has not done any investigations to date. We are about to complete 13 initial assessments, and we will be starting our investigations this summer.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

How long has your office been in operation?

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

The CORE was established in May 2019. We've just completed our fourth year.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

So no investigation has been carried out since 2019. As a result, you have no proof that companies will make any changes to follow up on your recommendations, since this never happened since the creation of the Office of the Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise. Okay.

Are you aware that, on the ground, certain NGOs advise victims of human or environmental rights violations committed by Canadian companies against dealing with your office because doing so can harm rather than help them?

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

My team and I believe it's more important to do our work right than to do it fast, and we believe we have gotten it right: We've built a strong foundation for a complaints mechanism, through which we are currently reviewing 15 complaints.

Also, I will say that 13 of those complaints are brought by a coalition of 28 organizations, including the Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project, which is led by Mehmet Tohti, a Uyghur Canadian activist.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Ms. Meyerhoffer, in one of the committee's meetings, you told me that you'd like for your office to have more powers. Did you end up getting them? If not, how important is it that the government give you these powers for you to work effectively?

[Sheri Meyerhoffer]

My answer remains the same. Yes, the CORE believes and I believe that having the addition of the power to compel documents and testimony would strengthen our ability to do our job. I remain steadfast in that. I am having conversations at all possible times to move that along as soon as possible.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Ms. Émond, are there countries in which FinDev doesn't invest due to concerns related to human rights? If there are, how do you come to the decision not to invest in a given country?

[Stéphanie Émond]

Thank you for the question.

FinDev Canada has a mandate to invest in developing countries, in other words countries that are eligible for official development assistance. At the current time, we've no restrictions based on environmental or social risks, including risks related to human rights.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you kindly for your answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, you are out of time.

It's over to you, Ms. McPherson, for six minutes or less.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here. I know that it is a late night for all of you. We appreciate your giving us your time.

Ms. Meyerhoffer, you won't be surprised to hear from me that I find the work of the CORE office to be very substandard. The fact that we are.... This was announced in 2018. It was announced at the time with the ability to compel testimony and documents. That has never happened.

The ombudsperson was given an increased budget, the CORE role was given an increased budget, yet no investigations have been completed. We've heard from organizations such as the United Steelworkers, Oxfam, the Canadian Network for Corporate Accountability and Kairos—a number of organizations that have said the CORE fails to provide even a modicum of what was expected from this position.

All I will say to that is that I have put forward a piece of legislation. It is Bill C-263. It gives the CORE the ability to compel testimony and witnesses. I have offered it to the government. It would give you the ability to do your job much better and certainly, hopefully, complete an investigation, which I know that we have not done yet.

My colleague, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, has asked you most of those questions, so I'm going to focus on FinDev.

Could our guests from FinDev please tell me how many ODA dollars are given to FinDev by the government?

[Paulo Martelli]

We have received $300 million Canadian. This was in 2018, when we were established, and that is the amount we have received so far to date.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

One of my main questions on the FinDev money is how Canadians account for it. We know that when a Canadian CSO receives funding from Global Affairs Canada, there is a very onerous reporting process that it must go through to tell what the outcomes were for that.

We don't actually get very much information from FinDev on how projects are determined and decided. More importantly, it's the end-use transparency or the end-use reporting: How does FinDev track and monitor the end use of its funds?