Canada-China Relations Committee on Nov. 27th, 2023

[Darcy DeMarsico]

Canada is an important supplier of crab in the Indo-Pacific region. Our crab exports were worth $483,896,059 over the last year. We are certainly seeing that the value of crab was impacted over the last year, which could be from a number of different factors—obviously, food prices and inflation but also geopolitical issues. The larger lead on trade issues around food rests with Global Affairs Canada and AAFC. We're working very closely with those organizations to raise the issue of access more broadly and of snow crab in particular.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

With that, we will go to Mr. Cormier for six minutes, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans personnel.

Fisheries represent 60% of the economy of my riding. Two of my colleagues here come from the Atlantic region, where the fisheries economy and fisheries strategies are very important. We have had a number of discussions in recent months and recent years concerning these strategies.

As you said earlier, Canadian fish and seafood exports to the Indo-Pacific region amounted to almost $2 billion in 2022. We export a huge volume of fishery products to China, but also to Japan and other countries here and there.

Under Canada's Indo-Pacific strategy, Canada recently opened an office of the Department of Agriculture and Agri-food in the Philippines. Why do we not have an office of fisheries and aquaculture? Is there one that we do not know about? In addition, what are you doing to promote our fish and seafood exports to countries other than China?

[Darcy DeMarsico]

As you said, the Indo-Pacific region is an important market for Canadian fish and seafood. It accounts for 23% of our total exports. It's also an important import source for Canada, representing $2.47 billion.

In this context of trade, we work very closely with Global Affairs Canada and Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, which lead on this particular pillar of the strategy. As you note, they have expanded trade action into a new office in the Philippines, and we work through them to ensure that fisheries and seafood products are reflected in our trade promotion exports.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We often see that an office responsible for promoting agriculture prioritizes agriculture. We understand that, and we accept it. However, there should still be something for the fisheries sector. As you said, exports in that sector amount to $2 billion.

Do you think we should have a similar office for the fisheries and aquaculture sector in Canada's Indo-Pacific strategy? Do you think it is important to have an office like that, similar to the one for agriculture and agri-food?

[Darcy DeMarsico]

I think that, in that context, there are a lot of efficiencies and gains that can be done by having a very strong Canadian brand for sustainability, and I hope that our fish and seafood sector is an important part of that Canadian brand.

I think we'd want to be engaged in that larger effort more broadly.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Right. I will move on to my other question.

I have looked at the various initiatives found in the strategy. Not to be critical, but I want to point something out, because the fisheries sector is so important to me that I want it to function.

It says that Canada wants to share expertise in managing fish stocks and ocean protection, but only a few weeks ago, the environment commissioner said that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans unfortunately had no reliable data on the recovery of certain fish stocks. Canada's Indo-Pacific strategy was launched to promote what Canada is doing in this area that is good, when we may be doing it badly.

What kind of discussions are you engaging in on this subject, to set the record straight and see what we are doing badly here? If we want to promote the fisheries sector in other countries, we have to ensure good fisheries management ourselves. There are flaws, which we are currently studying at the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

What are you doing in terms of managing stocks here in Canada, right now, before thinking about sharing that expertise with these other countries?

[Darcy DeMarsico]

I'm going to turn to my colleague, Brent Napier, who can talk to you about the Canadian best practices that are valued by our colleagues in the region.

[Brent Napier, Director, Enforcement Policy and Programs, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks for the excellent question.

You heard a little bit from the opening remarks about dark vessel detection. One of the main areas is to control capacity. For us, on the enforcement side, it's to support our partners. You mentioned having some resources in the Philippines. In fact, I have two officers who are just returning from the Philippines. We have signed an MOU with the Philippines, which will provide them with support in terms of managing fisheries and managing capacity.

The Chinese fleet has over 500,000 vessels, in contrast to Canada's 17,000. We're learning valuable lessons as we support our partners, using new technology and innovation both abroad and also domestically.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Right, but I just want to make sure you understand my question properly.

We say we want to promote Canada's best practices regarding managing fish stocks, but, once again, there is a report that says these practices are not good. What are you doing to ensure that our fisheries sector is taken seriously, and so that we do have best practices that we can then share with the countries with which we want to do business under Canada's Indo-Pacific strategy?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

We'll need a short answer, please.

[Brent Napier]

The short response is, certainly applying the innovation and tech. The report itself—and I had the pleasure of being at that committee as well—focused on a very particular part of our work. It didn't necessarily focus full-on on science and management, but also enforcement. We're making strides in all of those areas.

As we learn and use this technology in marine protected areas, as an example, in the Canadian context, we can certainly apply that in both directions, as we have in the Galapagos and in the countries in the Indo-Pacific region.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Bergeron, it's your turn, for six minutes or less.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to talk about the Kiwa initiative, a multi-donor program to build the resilience of the ecosystems, communities, and economies of the Pacific Islands to climate change, through nature-based solutions, by protecting, sustainably managing, and restoring biodiversity. If I am not mistaken, Canada has contributed something along the lines of $10 million.

Are there other initiatives of the same type that Canada participates in?

[Sandra McCardell]

First, I want to clarify that the figure is approximately $16 million and it is Global Affairs Canada that manages this project.

Yes, there are other support projects in the Indo-Pacific region that fall under the foreign affairs and environment departments. Some projects relate to biodiversity specifically. In terms of climate funding, there are also projects to help countries like Thailand and Fiji manage the effects of climate change, to adapt to what is happening to them, and to respond to natural disasters.

Particularly on biodiversity, I'm going to turn to my colleague Kelly Torck, who is responsible for partnerships on biodiversity.

Kelly, would you like to provide a little bit more detail on that one?

[Kelly Torck, Director General, Biodiversity Policy and Partnerships, Department of the Environment]

Certainly.

I'll just highlight, as Ms. McCardell referenced in her opening remarks, that there is, in fact, a new global biodiversity framework fund that's been established. That will be helpful at the global level in supporting projects in developing countries to implement the global biodiversity framework that was recently adopted.

In addition, in the context of the climate finance funding that Canada provides through Global Affairs Canada and others, a portion of that is supporting projects that are supporting nature-based solutions and/or biodiversity co-benefits. Certainly, eligible countries within the region are able to be considered further for those projects.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I was mainly wondering whether there are other multilateral projects or initiatives of this kind that Canada participates in.

In any event, why could we not imagine, for example, a country like Taiwan contributing to an initiative like Kiwa? That would enable us to intensify our relations with Taiwan, or, at least, enable Taiwan to intensify its relations with its neighbours, without landing ourselves in a recognition or non-recognition quandary. In a way, it would be a way of evading the constraints associated with the one-China policy.

[Sandra McCardell]

For the moment, we have no projects with Taiwan. That said, we do have some projects with governments at various levels, through our climate funding envelope. As I said in my introductory statement, we have projects with subregional governments and even municipalities. We are not constrained to engaging only with states.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Excellent. The visit by the Minister of Environment and Climate Change to the People's Republic of China stirred up a lot of controversy. Some people wondered whether it was the right time to be resuming ministerial visits. The minister seemed to care a lot about it, thinking that his presence might make it possible to rebuild bridges and move collaboration on the plan for strategies to combat climate change forward. What are the effects, conclusions and tangible impacts from the minister's visit to the People's Republic of China?

[Sandra McCardell]

I think one thing that is clear is that, even with countries that we may not agree with a great deal, it's important that we engage on questions that affect the globe. Environment is one of those questions. Our ability to speak to countries that we have tense relationships with is important—

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I especially do not want to interrupt you, but because my speaking time is limited—

[Sandra McCardell]

I understand.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I agree with what you are saying. That said, what are the tangible effects of that meeting?

[Sandra McCardell]

I can say a couple of things.

First of all, the visit to China allowed the minister to meet with his counterpart. It allowed him to co-chair the China council for international co-operation on environment and development. That was an important session that was attended, in its final iteration, by the Vice-Premier himself to hear exactly the recommendations not only of Canada as co-chair but of those present. A wide range of countries, including our closest partners, the Nordics, the EU, etc., as well as the UN Environment Programme and civil society NGOs, were present and offered their very clear recommendations. Some of those included things as clear as “no new coal”.

There was an opportunity, at a very senior level, for China to hear clear messages about expectations around how it will conduct its program to address climate change—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

At that, we'll have to interrupt. I'm sorry.

We have to move on now to Mr. Boulerice for six minutes or less.