Evidence of meeting #28 for Canada-China Relations in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was region.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ian G. McKay  Ambassador of Canada to Japan and Special Envoy for the Indo-Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Weldon Epp  Assistant Deputy Minister, Indo-Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Gregory Smith  Director General, International Security Policy, Department of National Defence
Newton Shortliffe  Assistant Director, Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Cayle Oberwarth  Director General Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence
Sarah Estabrooks  Director General, Policy and Foreign Relations, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Frank Des Rosiers  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Innovation, Department of Natural Resources
Darcy DeMarsico  Director General, Blue Economy Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Sandra McCardell  Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of the Environment
Brent Napier  Director, Enforcement Policy and Programs, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Kelly Torck  Director General, Biodiversity Policy and Partnerships, Department of the Environment
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Christine Holke

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken Hardie

We're back to our second session now. I am calling the meeting to order to welcome our witnesses for the second panel.

Mr. Kmiec has joined us now. That's good to see.

From the Department of National Defence, we have Cayle Oberwarth, director general operations, strategic joint staff; and Gregory Smith, director general, international security policy. From the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, we have Sarah Estabrooks, director general, policy and foreign relations; and Newton Shortliffe, assistant director of collection. Oh gosh, I hope we don't owe you anything here.

Each department will have up to five minutes to deliver opening remarks.

I understand, Mr. Smith, that we'll lead with you.

4:30 p.m.

Major-General Gregory Smith Director General, International Security Policy, Department of National Defence

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, we're honoured to appear before you.

As stated, I'm Major-General Greg Smith, director general, international security policy. I'm joined by my colleague, Brigadier-General Cayle Oberwarth, director general of operations for the strategic joint staff.

Thank you for this opportunity to support the committee's discussion on the Indo-Pacific strategy and to provide an overview of the progress made by the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces in the implementation of our initiatives and our activities in support of the Indo-Pacific strategy.

Among the five interconnected pillars of the Indo-Pacific strategy, the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces are primarily focused on the peace, resilience and security pillar. But we also have an important supporting role in the active and engaged partner pillar.

It is important to remember that prior to the release of the Indo-Pacific strategy, Canada already had a significant regional presence, including an over 70-year commitment to the United Nations Command in the Republic of Korea, regular ship and aircraft deployments in support of forward presence operations and sanctions monitoring, and participation in major regional exercises and capacity-building activities through our military training co-operation program.

Through new and significant investments announced under the Indo-Pacific strategy, the defence team has moved forward to broaden and deepen its presence in the region and position Canada as a positive contributor to peace and stability in the region. In fact, we have aggressively leaned forward on our five lines of effort to implement the strategy.

The Canadian Armed Forces has augmented Canada's naval presence in the Indo-Pacific, moving from two to three warships per year. Earlier this year, His Majesty's Canadian ship Montréal deployed from Canadian Forces Base Halifax to conduct operations in the Indian and Pacific oceans. His Majesty's Canadian ships Ottawa and Vancouver are currently in the region working with our allies and partners. Their contributions in upholding the rules-based international order have been well noted across the region, specifically when HMCS Montréal and Ottawa conducted three Taiwan Strait transits in company with the U.S. Navy.

Two, we have increased and diversified our regional engagements by participating in new multilateral exercises, with the Royal Canadian Air Force joining for the first time Exercise Mobility Guardian across multiple locations in the Indo-Pacific this summer. As well, the Royal Canadian Navy participated in its first exercise Sama Sama, led by the U.S. and the Philippine Navy.

We have expanded our capacity-building efforts through new programs and activities, with discussions underway to identify other relevant opportunities with regional partners.

Notably, the Canadian Armed Forces co‑hosted a “women, peace and security” conference with the Malaysian armed forces, one of the focus areas for capacity-building and security cooperation efforts. As well, the Royal Canadian Navy supported capacity-building efforts during SEACAT, the Southeast Asia Cooperation and Training multilateral exercise led by Singapore. These activities are important in building interoperability and trust with regional partners.

Four, the defence team established and staffed the four defence policy adviser positions in the region, with candidates already at post and integrated with our missions abroad. These new positions, located in Tokyo, Singapore, Canberra and the Pentagon in Washington, D.C., will have an immediate impact on deepening key partnerships and raising Canada's visibility in regional discussions on sensitive defence and security issues.

Finally, the defence team co‑hosted with U.S. counterparts a cyber-defence cooperation workshop with the Japanese Self-Defence Forces, focused on cyber-incident response and workforce development, to improve their ability to detect and respond to threats. These activities strengthen overall resilience and preparedness, protecting against coercive tactics and preventing theft of valuable intellectual property.

In the second year of the Indo-Pacific strategy, the defence team will maintain this level of engagement, including the deployment of three warships, while leveraging the relationships we've strengthened during the first year to deliver an expanded range of capacity-building and security co-operation programs.

As we deliver on our initiatives, the defence team is concurrently supporting the Indo-Pacific strategy's objective to be an active and engaged partner in the region by focusing our activities, engagements and port visits to ASEAN countries, including the Philippines, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam.

These efforts, among those across the whole of government, have contributed to tangible outcomes in support of our ASEAN-related objectives, including invitations to observe, for the first time, ASEAN defence ministers' meeting plus, or ADMM-plus, and experts' working group meetings and activities in 2023. In concrete terms, these activities directly support our strategic partnership with ASEAN and complement whole-of-government efforts to strengthen our presence in the region and increase our co-operation with ASEAN partners to deliver on the defence and security objectives outlined in our Indo-Pacific strategy—

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken Hardie

With that, I'll have to interrupt. We're a little beyond our five minutes. You will have opportunities, I'm sure, to answer questions or to work in anything else that you weren't able to get to.

We'll now go to Mr. Shortliffe for five minutes or less.

4:40 p.m.

Newton Shortliffe Assistant Director, Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, good afternoon.

My name is Newton Shortliffe. I am the assistant director, collection, at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, meaning I'm responsible for all the regions and the collection of intelligence.

I'm joined by my colleague Sarah Estabrooks, director general of policy and foreign relations.

I'm pleased to join you here today to speak on behalf of the service on this topic, and I look forward to addressing your questions.

As a partner of Global Affairs Canada, CSIS is an integral contributor to the successful delivery of the Indo-Pacific strategy. The strategy rightfully acknowledges that enhanced engagement in the region must include measures to safeguard Canada's economic security, our democratic institutions and our population. Through the fulfillment of its national security mandate, CSIS is committed to the protection of Canada and Canadians while also helping the Government of Canada meet its foreign policy objectives.

CSIS is actively engaged in countering the breadth of complex threats to Canada emanating from the Indo-Pacific region, including in the form of foreign interference, espionage, cyber-enabled threats, disinformation and misinformation. Through our investigations and intelligence analysis, CSIS supports Government of Canada decision-making in relation to these threats.

CSIS is also working to strengthen its relationships with regional partners and traditional allies. This enables Canada to engage more effectively and securely in the Indo-Pacific region.

The Indo-Pacific region is vast, the threat is complex and the opportunities are limitless. Canada must be aligned with key partners to advance its ambitious regional agenda. The service contributes to this by leveraging its intelligence partnerships. When synchronized with other Government of Canada efforts, these additional channels of communication and coordination can have a force multiplier effect in the protection of Canadians and Canadian interests.

CSIS focuses primarily on promoting peace, resilience and security. However, the information and intelligence available to us may determine what measures are taken under the five objectives set out in the strategy.

While there are some limits on the level of detail I can discuss today, I will be pleased to take your questions.

Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken Hardie

Thank you very much, Mr. Shortliffe.

We will now go to our first round of questioning, beginning with Mr. Chong for six minutes or less.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just last month at the APEC summit, the U.S. and the PRC agreed to resume military-to-military communication. What is the nature and extent of Canada's military-to-military communication with the PLA, if any?

4:40 p.m.

MGen Gregory Smith

Mr. Chair, I will take that one, please.

It is relatively limited. We have a PRC defence attaché here in Ottawa, Senior Colonel Li. I speak to him regularly, sometimes via démarches, and equally within Beijing we have our military connection there as well. That's about how extensive it is right now.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you. I appreciate that answer.

As you know, there are two resupply ships being constructed. Canada currently has one. That supply ship, I understand, was sent with the HMCS Ottawa in Vancouver, I believe, earlier this year. I have a couple of questions. First, how is a single resupply ship limiting our ability to project force, not just in the Pacific region but also in the Atlantic region? Second, can you tell us about any planning for 2024 operations concerning frigates and the resupply ship Asterix in the Pacific region?

4:45 p.m.

Brigadier-General Cayle Oberwarth Director General Operations, Strategic Joint Staff, Department of National Defence

Mr. Chair, thank you very much for the question.

At this time, the Asterix is operating in the Indo-Pacific region, and it has done quite well over the last few months in that space. In fact, they have just come off ANNUALEX, which is a large exercise including a number of our regional partners and allies, where it worked not just with Canadian vessels but also with multinational partners. It's a hugely valuable asset and resource to have in the region, certainly, not just as a measure for refuelling and—

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Pardon me, but I have a quick question.

Who is handling resupply for our Pacific fleet right now?

4:45 p.m.

BGen Cayle Oberwarth

Are you referring to the Canadian Pacific fleet?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Yes.

4:45 p.m.

BGen Cayle Oberwarth

At this time—

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

I'm sorry—I mean Canada's Atlantic fleet. Who is handling resupply for Canada's Atlantic fleet if the Asterix is in the Indo-Pacific?

4:45 p.m.

BGen Cayle Oberwarth

At this time, the way we manage the travel of these vessels is dependent upon how we can resupply them. Naturally, we will use ports of call to refuel vessels if they don't have a mother ship to go to.

Does that answer your question, sir?

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

It does. Thank you.

Can you tell us what the plan is for next year with respect to Royal Canadian Navy operations in the Indo-Pacific region and whether the current operations will extend into next year?

4:45 p.m.

BGen Cayle Oberwarth

In keeping with the Indo-Pacific strategy, we're looking to continue our current level of engagement in the region. I can't speak to the nature of the engagements we will have, but I can tell you that we are going to have a similar level of contribution.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Thank you.

I have a question for CSIS and Public Safety more broadly. In the departmental plans for this year, going into the fiscal year-end of March 31, 2024, Public Safety Canada said it will “advance implementation of initiatives to support the promotion of peace, resilience and security in the Indo-Pacific”. Will Public Safety Canada and CSIS lead any initiatives under Canada's Indo-Pacific strategy?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Director, Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service

Newton Shortliffe

Thank you for the question.

Our role is to support, as part of team Canada, the efforts of the Government of Canada as a whole in the Indo-Pacific strategy. CSIS, for example, is seeking to engage in enhanced relationships both with some of our traditional partners but also in developing new partnerships that will position the service to be able to provide intelligence to the Government of Canada that will assist with its overall objectives. It's very much a team Canada approach that we are a part of.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Is CSIS or Public Safety Canada taking the lead on any of the initiatives in the Indo-Pacific strategy?

I ask because on page 15 of the strategy, it says that Canada will “ensure Canada's national security and law enforcement agencies...are appropriately tasked and resourced to support the objectives outlined in the strategy and work in a coordinated fashion to enhance Canada's public safety and the security of Canadians”.

I'm wondering if Public Safety and CSIS are taking the lead on that part of the strategy or who is taking the lead if it's not Public Safety or CSIS.

November 27th, 2023 / 4:45 p.m.

Assistant Director, Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service

Newton Shortliffe

We are taking a lead in developing the relationships with our intelligence partners in the region that will support the overall objectives of the Government of Canada.

Now, the overall guidance of the strategy, the implementation strategy, is coordinated by Global Affairs Canada, and CSIS and Public Safety participate in that forum with them as we seek to develop—

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Can you tell us which security intelligence partners you've met with in the Indo-Pacific region?

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken Hardie

Could we have a brief answer, please, sir?

4:45 p.m.

Assistant Director, Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service

Newton Shortliffe

I apologize. I didn't quite hear your question.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Can you tell us which intelligence partners you've met with in the region—not you personally, but the service?