I'll add one further point, if I may.
It's probably the middle ground between the two previous speakers. I've made my views clear on what I think is the impotent nature of the rules-based multilateralism model. Having said that, what ASEAN brings that's dissimilar to most regional and multilateral organizations is a very heavy weight placed on science, innovation and higher education. I think this is one of the reasons that drove the U.K. to having affiliate status with ASEAN as one of their biggest national security priorities in the region.
I think access on that level is important. It's important for a discussion on standards, whether it's an international dialogue on AI standards, data governance standards or others. I think access to those conversations is very important.