Canada-China Relations Committee on April 8th, 2024

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Is that investigation ongoing?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

My understanding is that those officials are going to be before this committee, and there will be an opportunity—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Is the investigation ongoing now, at the current time, Minister?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'm not responsible for that investigation. It wouldn't be me or my department, but those—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I didn't ask if you're responsible. I asked you if there was an investigation going on.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Those individuals will be appearing before this committee, and you can ask the questions of them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Mr. Fragiskatos, go ahead.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

If you want to listen to them or give them an opportunity to have an answer, then—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

No, I'm asking you a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Dr. Ellis, I'm sorry, but we have a point of order.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

You're not really asking me a question here. You're badgering me, but that's okay.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Oh, I'm sorry to hurt your feelings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Dr. Ellis, please—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

You're not hurting my feelings. You're just not letting me get a chance to answer.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

You're not answering the question. That's the biggest problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

Dr. Ellis, please.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Chair, I echo what Mr. Naqvi said. The meeting was going well. These are important issues and no one's denying that, but if we're going to be serious about getting answers that allow for a genuine approach, one that prevents errors like this from happening in the future, then let's at least allow a civil dialogue to take place. That's all we're asking for.

We're going to have a number of meetings on this very issue, it looks like. I don't know whether Mr. Ellis is here as a permanent replacement or he's here temporarily, but I would just ask for the member to act as an adult. I don't know how else I can put it.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks for the lecture.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken Hardie]

All right. Listen, we've made our points. Let's keep things cut, neat and tidy, with short questions and answers, and get it done.

Dr. Ellis, you have just a tad over a minute left.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks very much, Chair.

Considering what we have learned so far, which is next to nothing, what prompted the SDG of the NML to ID Dr. Qiu and Dr. Cheng as potential security risks as far back as 2018?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

As Madam Jeffrey indicated, there was a process with an update from CSIS on the potential for employees to be approached in an attempt to get information from them, and reviews were undertaken. As part of the review that came out of that process in the fall of 2018, it was found that a patent had been—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Excuse me, Minister, but that's not true because the patent issue, as we already established, came in October. This was in August 2018. The SDG said to CSIS there was a problem with two scientists. They named Qiu and Cheng. Why?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Again, my understanding of the chronology—and Madam Jeffrey can correct me if I'm wrong—is that in August 2018, there was a CSIS briefing.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Yes, but you're not answering the question, Minister.