One of the elements I've talked about is the work of this committee and the work that we've been doing with Public Safety, ISED and specifically CSIS to make sure that we talk about these issues. It's very important, because it's only through the knowledge of ourselves and other people that we'll be able to address the concerns expressed.
By definition, these approaches are covert. The PRC is trying to obfuscate their approach. The more we talk about it, the more the PRC is adapting their methods. I talked about the fact that this is a cat-and-mouse game. The better we are, the better they are changing, and they're obfuscating their approach.
The best way forward, to answer the question, would be to say that we can never rest on our laurels on this. I think it's a good thing that we were collectively able to identify these two people. My concern as the director of CSIS is that it's a relentless effort on the part of the PRC. They are using all methods to acquire technology know-how and data.
From that point of view, I'm not sure anyone can provide a level of one hundred per cent clarity on this, but from CSIS's point of view, in terms of transparency, we are absolutely focused on the issue of talent programs. That's why we've been talking, writing and publicizing about it and engaging directly with the organizations that are susceptible to being infiltrated by the talent programs.