At the time, I was the minister of fisheries or minister of intergovernmental affairs. So I wasn't really dealing with issues of this kind. However, based on what I recollect from various conversations with my colleagues, there was no specific moment that led to a flash of insight. It was more a series of circumstances that heightened awareness, including the Two Michaels incident, with both men being held in a totally arbitrary and illegal manner, along with some other incidents. It was because of the increase in threatening and aggressive behaviour. I'm not speaking on behalf of other countries, but based on my conversations with other ministers of the interior, including the United States Secretary of Homeland Security, they were noticing the same things as we were: an increase in attempted interference, clandestine activities and the manner in which China was attempting to obtain economic information.
My impression is that it was over a specific period—
I hear a podcast. What is Charlie listening to?