That's a very good question, I think, Chair. I think changing the culture will involve far more than that, but I take your point.
One of the difficulties we have in this country in terms of holding anybody accountable is that you can't talk about it publicly. The Privacy Act is very, very strict, and there are good reasons for that. If you're able to identify, in a particular time frame, people in positions who had responsibilities that could have been discharged better, that's one way of doing it. However, accusing somebody of doing something wrong in the lab without the possibility of a real investigation, of appeals and whatnot, is very, very difficult.
I really do believe that in this case, there are so many people who played a role on this file and did not do what they might have done that it's going to be hard to say, “It's this person, this person and that person.”
Nonetheless, I think it's something that the public service, eventually with ministers, should look at to determine whether or not it should be possible publicly to make the point without destroying a person's reputation. You know, for as long as I've been a public servant, this has been an issue. Many politicians have suggested to me that it's driven them to distraction that there's never been a public servant held accountable. I was talking to people in the private sector. You know what they do when somebody really does something wrong? They give them a very large cheque and they go away. Nobody ever talks about it. I'm exaggerating, but there's some truth in that.
We can't do that in the public service, so what we do is that we shuffle people, or they're reproved or, if they're an executive, their executive compensation is reduced and whatnot. If we're not prepared to talk about it, though, at least to some degree—and I would limit the degree publicly—it's not going to work, because it's an example that we have to get out. If people don't know that something negative can happen, you're right that it's going to be very hard to change the culture. However, I would prefer to use the carrot in changing the culture, to the extent possible, because, as I said, we're dealing with very smart, highly educated people, and if we don't bring them along it's going to be an uphill battle.