Canadian Heritage Committee on Sept. 25th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Kotto.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I agree with Mr. Abbott that we should quickly consider Mr. Scapaleggia's motion.

On the other hand, I will come back to our last meeting when we spent so much time on the museum studies. I thought we had settled the matter. At the meeting, I said something to the effect that it was a waste of time, given the work that was initially done by the previous government with regard to museums.

The consultation of regional and local museums will only be useful in response to a bill tabled by the government. Besides, given the $4.6 million cuts to museum assistance that has just been announced, it seems the government has information on the state of affairs.

Why lose time on this issue? Let us allow the government to move forward with its bill, and we will respond accordingly. Initially, we had presented issues that might take time to consider, given that there might be an election called next spring. In addition to museums, we need to deal with such urgent issues as film, television and the CRTC.

With respect to the agenda that was submitted to us, I find that too much time was set aside for studies, which in the end will probably be of no use.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

We'll take that into account. Our experts will work on that.

Yes, Mr. Abbott.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

This arises from the suggestion last June from Mr. Scarpaleggia about having the railway museums come here. Generally, most of the committee members, I believe, were in agreement that railway museums had some particularly unique needs among museums. For the record, I have done a little work on this and have received information.

There are fundamentally, in the area of railway historical museums, two organizations, and there are different manifestations of those two organizations. I think we have to listen to both of them.

Before I carry on with that, let me make a quick aside. I would suggest respectfully to Mr. Kotto that if we have time in this committee to do this work, the information we gather will be of very high value for our government or any successor government for making policy, particularly with respect to railway museums.

I'll just finish my summary.

Number one, concerning organization, the Canadian Railroad Historical Association or CRHA, my notes say, is a world-class, pan-Canadian institution that owns, preserves, and disseminates information on Canadian railway heritage throughout Canada. The museum Mr. Scarpaleggia is recommending we hear from is actually the most significant manifestation of the Canadian Railroad Historical Association.

In addition to that, however, there is a second organization that is not in competition with but actually adds to this picture. That is the Canadian Council for Railway Heritage. In summary, the CCRH is an organized railway interest group that lobbies for improvement and sustainability on behalf of railway museums, tourist railroads, and railway heritage organizations in Canada. They are actually involved sometimes in rail tours and so on.

It's all part of this very unique thing that Canada has. Canada would not be a nation—we would not exist—without the railways. That's how key railways are to us. If we have time and if it's the wisdom of this committee to go ahead with these hearings, my recommendation would be to hear from spokespersons from both of those organizations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. Kotto.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I will not be pushing on any open doors. I'm not opposed to discussing Mr. Scarpaleggia's motion, which we do support. We were talking about the distinctiveness of that museum.

However, to come back to the testimony by the representatives of the Canadian Museums Association prior to the adjournment, it had been made clear that further studies would lead us back to the same conclusions reached during the previous parliament.

The information is available. Once again, if the government is announcing a $4.6 million cut to museums assistance this afternoon, it is because it has information at its disposal. If not, we might think it was improvising, which would greatly surprise me. The government should move forward with its bill on the basis of work undertaken by the previous government, and then we will see.

I am astounded, stunt and exasperated to see that so many weeks have been set aside for reviewing museums. We need to deal with the Canadian Railway Museum because its distinctiveness is definitely not an asset, contrary to what we might think.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Scarpaleggia.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Chair, may I present and ask support for this motion?

At the beginning of the meeting you mentioned that this museum was in my area. Just for the record, it is not in my riding. It's important, because this is not about my constituency per se. It's not in my riding. It's not even in my region of Quebec, and to be honest, I didn't know that much about the museum until I was invited this summer for a visit. I was just amazed and bowled over by what I saw.

This, Mr. Chair, is one of the top five rail museums in the world. It is not a small museum. The breadth of its collection is extraordinary. It captures the history of rail in Canada. At one point it was considered for integration into the Canada Science and Technology Museum. This is an extraordinary asset and treasure for Canada.

If we invite representatives from this museum, we will be alerted to a very important situation, almost a crisis situation, with this museum. I would hate to see this museum take a step backwards in any way. I think the hearing could probably generate some information, some answers, and even some further questions in relation to the museum policy in general in Canada, maybe in relation to small museums as well.

I was amazed at what this museum offers. It's not just any kind of museum; it's a very unique situation, and I would ask that the committee take one session to hear representatives of the museum discuss the challenges they face in relation to their future.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay. I'd like to bring the motion forward: That the committee invite representatives of Canada's premier rail museum, internationally renowned Exporail Museum in Saint-Constant, Quebec, to discuss significant challenges facing the museum's future as a foremost guardian of Canada's rail heritage and history.

We have in our calendar that we would see if they could attend a public hearing here on October 16; that's a Monday. I ask that we take a vote on this motion.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I intend this as a friendly amendment to the motion we're going to be voting on. I'm just going to ask, Mr. Chair, if it would be appropriate to add...how can I phrase this? Please work with me here.

Both of those organizations that I outlined just a couple of minutes ago are represented with the railway museum and the Canadian Museum of Rail Travel, which is in Cranbrook. I would like, if possible, to get a representative from each of those organizations, because they do represent....

I am fully supportive and couldn't possibly be more supportive of where Mr. Scarpaleggia is coming from. I want that to happen, but in addition it might be of value to complete the circle by bringing in people from outside just that one facility, because the railway museum issue is a nationwide issue, and these people could represent both of those organizations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Are you saying it would be at the same session?

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I don't know if we would have time, but--

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

If we are going to do the railroad museums, I see no reason why we couldn't go with Mr. Scarpaleggia initially; then down the way, once we get finished with estimates, we could perhaps have those other two on October 25. Would that be acceptable?

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

For me it is. My goal is to give some time to this institution.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

May I ask for a vote on Mr. Scarpaleggia's motion to have the rail museum from Saint-Constant, Quebec, come to our October 16 meeting. All in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

For the next meeting, would you like to make a motion to have two museums here? We could entertain that at the next meeting.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

If you'll permit me, I believe in being completely transparent and candid. I think there is a chance that by the time we get to the next meeting—if we are in agreement, and I think we are at this point. We should do the full circle on this railway idea. I think the people coming from the west would do exactly that.

My concern is there is going to be enough potential backlash relative to the whole museum issue and so on that I would like to handle my request at this meeting, if we could. I believe that procedurally I need to have unanimous consent to move the motion to invite those people. Am I correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Do we have unanimous consent from the committee on Mr. Abbott's motion to have those two rail museums from the west on October 25?

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Chair, the idea is that we'd basically have two sessions on rail museums, but we're not necessarily approving a longer, more involved study of small museums.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

No, no.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

If that's the case, then I would support that a second session be held and that we stop there.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, is there a reason why we're not having all of these individuals appear on the same day? Is it a timing problem?

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

It's not a timing problem—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

It's a timing problem.

First of all, do we have unanimous consent to bring the motion forward?

Mr. Kotto.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would only like to know whether we need to devote two sessions to the museum issue. Is one meeting not enough to deal with this issue?

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to move forward with my motion, which was approved. I think that Exporail needs some dedicated attention. That's why I'm in favour of a second meeting to invite the associations Mr. Abbott referred to, but I would like it to stop there. That's my personal view as a member.