Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 20th, 2006

[Pierre Bélanger]

If you would allow me to just finish on that, that's why our message today is to skip the big bureaucratic creatures, if I can use that word, because basically the problem is that the money stays in Ottawa and Toronto and doesn't percolate up north. If you deal directly with the organizations that are close-knit with our community, that are working in their environment, they know their environment and their communities. Then you get the most out of it. Then you can have accountability, because you deal directly with people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. Thibault.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First I want to thank you for being with us. I had the pleasure of working with the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse between 1981 and 1993, at a time when resources were quite abundant. That didn't prevent us from complaining all the same. I was president of that same organization during tougher years, from 1995 to 1997. During that time, we had to deal with all kinds of budget constraints. We nevertheless set up issue tables and, in the context of those tables, commitments were made to work with other departments and maximize revenues.

Before going any further, I'd like to respond to Mr. Fast's question. In fact, this type of funding would be good for the strongest communities, but it would further weaken the remote and weaker communities. Those in the Atlantic, Moncton, for example, could benefit from it, but communities such as Baie Sainte-Marie or Chéticamp would be penalized by it.

To go back to those years of budget cuts, I must say that some commitments were made. Other departments granted operating funding. You mentioned the issue of French-language services in the minority communities. Back home, we worked hard and long to obtain education in French. I believe the Court Challenges Program was established in 1995 or 1996. That doesn't necessarily appear in your document. That was a basic support. When our rights weren't respected, we could challenge the provincial government, school boards or the federal government.

[Pierre Bélanger]

That program's been cancelled, hasn't it?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Indeed. Since we're losing that tool, the problem is worsening. In literacy, we found funding to help people. You mentioned a number of people who had problems. Whether in health, education or literacy, it has to be acknowledged that providing services in the remote minority communities is more costly on a per capita basis.

With your communities, we also established a community radio station in Baie Sainte-Marie, of which I was the first treasurer. I believe there were three stations in your communities.

[Pierre Bélanger]

Indeed, I had the pleasure of working with Guy Lizotte at the community radio station in Hearst, Ontario. Radio de l'Épinette noir is still going very well. It's firmly rooted in its community.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

We're a small community. So a French-language newspaper is out of the question. Instead we're talking about weeklies and small savings. It's hard to sell advertising. Consequently, we depend more on federal government investment.

Unfortunately, that investment has been reduced. Here we're talking not only about financial support for your organizations, but also all the other forms of support we rely on, particularly the Court Challenges Program. The entire question surrounding Bill S-3 is in jeopardy. That bill will be a dead letter if we don't get the necessary funding. That's what would breathe life into the bill.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about the effects of this problem on our communities.

[Suzanne Roy]

This association movement has made it possible to create all the literacy centres and health centres. Today, those centres are in a somewhat fragile position. From the grass-roots level, we're having trouble supporting them. Of course, the Montfort case was decisive, but we probably wouldn't have had the same results without the Court Challenges Program. In the case of the Sudbury Community Health Centre, the problem is imminent. The provincial government is refusing to subsidize that centre's satellites. This is the kind of situation in which, in the context of the strategy, we relied on that program. But it's been cancelled.

We're seeing a regression. At the same time, a need is increasingly being felt among the associations in the field. They want to be supported so that they can do what must be done to help everyone. The literacy field is in difficulty. The same is true of our museums. This is our culture, and we want to transmit it to our young people and to everyone else. There have been cuts there too.

Earlier we were talking about assimilation. On that point, we have to be able to convey this culture through programs and activities for everyone. It's increasingly necessary that the work we have to do be funded so that we can support everything that's been created over the years.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Ms. Roy, let's talk about early childhood. Do you believe that, in the current context, in the absence of federal funding programs, contributions from the provinces and work by the communities, the private sector will be interested in setting up day care centres for remote communities with the few dollars that the parents of children under six years of age provide? Is that possible? Isn't the government abandoning them?

[Suzanne Roy]

That can't be done in the private sector. It will become very difficult. Even child care in a family setting has to be managed because we want quality service for the children. I don't think it's possible to put that in the private sector's hands. Some partnerships may be created, but we haven't really looked at that option. If we want to counter assimilation, we have to do it with our children starting in childhood, in day care centres.

We also have to engage in literacy because francophones have the highest illiteracy rate. We have to be able to increase literacy among parents so that they can help their children. We're talking about children dropping out of school and a lot of other things. We've gone far in education, but it's still very tough at the post-secondary level. We still have to do everything.

[Pierre Bélanger]

There's no magic solution. Consider the example of the Garderie Clin D'oeil in Timmins. We did all the work. We did the feasibility studies, we stated the community's needs, we marketed it, and we set it up in a secondary school, which, at the time, was the largest secondary school in Ontario. We worked in partnership with the provincial government, with a federal government program and with the school board. Now things are working on their own. There is a private party, since the parents have chosen to take their children to that day care and are paying registration fees.

We don't have any ideological approach to this. We don't want to say that it should be totally private or totally government. We're in favour of a mixed approach.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

I was talking about the capital budget, to start up.

[Pierre Bélanger]

Absolutely, and I understand you perfectly well. We believe that the organizations need basic funding because the work that remains to be done is manpower training and economic diversification work. For that, we need quite strong Francophone communities to fight assimilation.

I'll give you a concrete example. We need 60,000 workers in the mining and forestry sectors in Ontario's High North region, from Hearst to New Liskeard to Timmins. We don't have those workers. They aren't trained. We need a Francophone community college focusing on trades in Timmins, which would be a regional centre. We don't just want to train workers, but entrepreneurs as well. The worker for the twenty-first century isn't just someone who knows a trade; it's someone who can start up a business. We need to create these winning economic conditions so that our young people can live in solid cultural communities. This culture will enable them to develop the economic aspect. We didn't talk about tourism or value-added on the Francophone side. You can't do that any more simply by means of a model. We believe that the organizations in the field have a responsibility to make requests. They have to be sufficiently funded so that they can find the right government programs and work in partnership with the private sector, as we've done in order to survive. We're asking that those who play the game have the means to play it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Kotto.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Your survival paradigms have been tested. In fact, the problem that arises is the sinews of your war: it's money. I'd like to know whether the Government of Quebec is adequately playing its role in this regard. If so, are you satisfied with it?

[Pierre Bélanger]

I don't think so. We don't have any direct link with the Government of Quebec or with any program whatever. I heard that Benoît Pelletier was changing that.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

He is precisely the one I was alluding to.

[Pierre Bélanger]

He just talked about it. That's something new, that didn't exist before.

[Suzanne Roy]

There has been some contact on the cultural side. In the arts and culture, there have been exchanges with Quebec for a number of years, but there are very few in other areas and very few in the regions.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

But, in concrete terms, with regard to what the Parti Québécois has previously said about the place of the Francophone communities outside Quebec, do you see in Mr. Pelletier's talk any positive points for your survival?

[Suzanne Roy]

I hope so. I'm meeting him tomorrow. So we'll see. The plan seems interesting. There's an opening, but it remains to be seen how we can work at the grass-roots level. It's that aspect that isn't obvious. How will it help us in the field? It helps us for major celebrations and in certain events, but, at the grass-roots level, I don't know. We'll have to see.

[Pierre Bélanger]

It remains to be seen exactly what there is in Mr. Pelletier's proposal. He has good intentions, he has a desire for openness, for working together, but, in concrete terms, it remains to be seen. We'll have to try it.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

On another matter all together, you referred earlier to the years of budget cuts. Which was the toughest year, in your view?

[Pierre Bélanger]

In my opinion, it was 1997-1998. Our budget fell to $30,358.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Did you see the blow coming or did it take you by surprise?