Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2006

[Robin Jackson]

A decrease...that's interesting. No, I can't comment on that.

I can tell you that the average production budget for 2006 was $287,740. I would say that's probably up about $60,000 or $70,000, so I guess there has been an increase. I don't think there's been a decrease.

In terms of the people coming to us, because we don't have the money to do new media right now, I would say we are turning away certain people. The whole question of addressing the multi-platform is quite new, as you know. If we are successful in being renewed, we wish to discuss that with Canadian Heritage. We would like to broaden our parameters and say that the platform, whether it's cellphones or iPods, or whatever, shouldn't be an issue. As long as it's educational, informational, we would like to be able to support that.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Now you've jumped into my next question.

It seems to me, from what you're doing--we had the new media fund as well and what they're trying to do--that the problem we have in Canada is distribution, getting the product out there. Yet we also have a phenomenal opportunity because we have Canadians who are now used to going online. Because they are in so many isolated spots in the country, they are now getting online what they want.

I know it's probably not within the purview of your specific fund, but should there be a separate fund or organization mandated through the government to ensure that we're looking at platform delivery, so that there is an avenue that projects can go to so that we could have, say, a Canadian online, video-on-demand program for people, in order to ensure the product is getting out there?

[Jean-Louis Robichaud]

I sit on the board as an end-user, not as a producer or distributor. I can assure you that what you are speaking about is in the minds of all people who are dealing with education in this country. It's very difficult in the present situation to have access to thousands of documents that would benefit children or teenagers in schools, or young adults at university level, because they're not online. If they were online, through a streaming process or whatever, it would be most beneficial. Everybody's looking at that, but it's not happening.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Have you looked at ways of monetizing that? Has that been part of the discussion? For example, with peer to peer in music, there's been a lot of talk about how to actually chart what's being downloaded, what's being traded, so we're not saying that these are going to be online for free, but that there is remuneration to artists. Within the music community, the monetizing of product going through the peer-to-peer networks, they've looked at a number of models. It would seem to me, for documentary, we would have to find a way to make sure it's available on demand. Would you think a fee for service, a monthly service, perhaps educational service fees for using whatever they want, would be appropriate?

[Robin Jackson]

I would have to tell you that we haven't really examined that. I think the whole issue is fairly new. The funding agencies are all trying to grapple with this. The producers are trying to grapple with the rights they will be able to hold onto, or not hold onto, and how the broadcasters will pay for it or not pay for it. This whole issue is up in the air right now.

The CRTC has been looking at it. It's a situation and an issue that I think we're not sure about right now. To protect the producers, I would want to see some kind of remuneration. These rights cannot be simply given away for free. Producers have to make a living, and it's a very difficult area to make a living in, as you know.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I want to take the argument now from a completely different point of view, which is the difficulties some of your documentary film producers might have accessing stock footage, historic footage, that is presently under copyright. I understand for many projects it's very difficult to get access, and to pay for, and it's becoming more difficult. Is that a problem you see with the budgets that are coming before you?

[Robin Jackson]

I can think of one project right now, done by Caroline Martel, which was le Fantôme de l'opératrice. Her film was on the telephone operator and it was all archival footage. It was a huge amount of work and a huge cost for her. I think it gets prohibitive for some producers, many producers, to deal with this kind of thing.

That's only one of the challenges they're facing. There are things like errors and omissions insurance, the cost of which is very prohibitive for producers. There is a number of challenges for independent producers right now on the horizon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank both of you for coming here and introducing us to your organization.

So I can familiarize myself a little bit more with your organization, I first of all want to completely understand your mandate. We've had some material given to us. Am I correct in assuming that your focus is informational, educational films and videos that are done on a small scale? Is that correct?

[Robin Jackson]

Yes, because we have a mandate to deal with new and emerging talent--not our whole fund, but a portion of it has to go that way--and they tend to be smaller budgets. Generally speaking, the educational information area is an entry into the film industry, so a lot of people will start in this area because they can do it on smaller budgets.

I was saying an average budget is $287,000, which we saw this year. That's probably on the low side for some, but that's what we're seeing. It doesn't compare with a feature film, you know. That's much, much more expensive. But when new producers are starting in, this is a much more accessible way for them to start, so producers will work with us and then they may move on, or they may stay and work in feature films as well, like Zacharias Kunuk.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Did you say The Corporation was funded through your organization?

[Robin Jackson]

It's interesting, yes, The Corporation was funded by us, and--

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

That's the film by Joel Bakan, is that right, the lawyer from Vancouver?

[Robin Jackson]

Yes, the lawyer from Vancouver. Bart Simpson is the producer.

The film started out as a non-theatrical project. It was going to be with TVO. We are often partners with educational broadcasters like Télé-Québec, TVO, SCN, and Access Alberta. They're very important partners. So the film was going to be in that area, for non-theatrical use, but it then grew into, as you know, a feature film, which none of us saw at the beginning.

The interesting thing about The Corporation is that there is a course at the University of Western Ontario based around The Corporation. That for us is true non-theatrical use.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Let me go back to the issue of funding, which has been raised a number of times here. In fact, Mr. Simms asked you what your ask list was from the new government.

First of all, what federal funding did you receive in the year 2005-06?

[Robin Jackson]

I can tell you that we've had a contributions agreement with the Department of Canadian Heritage since 2000. That expired October 5, 2006. The contributions agreement started off at $1.8 million. Through some budget cuts it was reduced in 2002 or 2003 to $1.55 million. So we've had $1.55 million from the government.

We also get money from the private sector, specifically Star Choice Communications. They started out at $800,000 a year. Through cuts, we're now down to $100,000 a year.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

The cuts that you mentioned you experienced in 2003, those were budget cuts?

[Robin Jackson]

Not budget cuts to us but to the Department of Canadian Heritage. I think program review was going on, and as part of that our budget was cut.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

And that review indicated that perhaps not all of the money was actually needed? Is that the rationale?

[Robin Jackson]

Oh, no, no. We were part of the feature film policy, and if you look at the evaluation commissioned by the Department of Canadian Heritage last year--it was done by Nordicity, I believe--we actually got the best report card in terms of what we did.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

And they still cut you back.

[Robin Jackson]

Well–

Yes, they did. But I'm not in government, so I don't know what their problems are.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Understood.

I'm teasing my friend across the way, and I think I'm teasing you a little bit too.

Further, you mention that new producers can avoid having to get a broadcast licence. First of all, does every producer or filmmaker have to get a broadcast licence? I don't quite understand that process.

[Robin Jackson]

It's not that they want to avoid it, it's that the way of financing has changed quite a bit. I'd say that seven years ago you used to be able to finance a film from the educational sector. Education, as you know, has had its share of problems, and that's no longer possible.

This fund started back in 1988, under Flora MacDonald. That's when it first started. At that point in time, things could be funded by the educational sector. Then life changed, and what is now prevalent is that the broadcaster funds many things. It's very important for a financial structure to have a broadcaster in it.

It's not that new producers choose not to have a broadcast licence, it's that they can't get one. The broadcaster has a number of things to choose from. They have certain slots--i.e., they can only do so many documentaries--so they can't fund everything. The want largely producers with track records. New and emerging producers may not have a track record, so they can't always get a broadcast licence. In some cases, even if they do get a broadcast licence, it may not be high enough to qualify at the Canadian Television Fund. As I think we mentioned, about 62% of the projects we funded couldn't get money from the CTF, or, in the past, from Telefilm.

So our money has been quite critical for people who haven't been able to get that piece of the puzzle.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you.