Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 8th, 2007

[Claire Samson]

We made these recommendations public on Tuesday. We have not yet had any reaction.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

You have had no direct contact with the minister concerning—

[Claire Samson]

Yesterday afternoon, I participated in the same teleconference as all the other industry stakeholders.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

She has therefore heard this recommendation.

[Claire Samson]

Yes, she must have heard it.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Secondly, you asked:

[...¨] that the CRTC immediately notify Videotron and Shaw that if, by the end of the current broadcast year, they have not fully remitted to the CTF the annual contribution due under the provisions of the Broadcasting Distribution Regulations, the Commission will take the appropriate steps to ensure that its regulations are followed, failing which it will impose the penalties prescribed in the Act.

Are we to understand by this recommendation that Shaw and Videotron are not yet in violation of the act as we speak?

[Vincent Leduc]

I'm going to give you the same answer that Mr. Barrett gave earlier. Unfortunately, I cannot say that I am not a lawyer, because I am. Nevertheless, I really do not know.

We've seen both sides of the coin. We state our position in our presentation; the presentation of the Canadian Film and Television Production Association mentions this as well.

What is clear is that this seems to be an obligation set out in the regulations, whatever the proper time for implementing it may be.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

In light of the fact that the government has taken no action, are you not afraid that the behaviour of Shaw and Videotron will spill over to the other players involved?

[Claire Samson]

Of the cable companies, so far Cogeco and Bell have said publicly that they would be continuing to support the Canadian Television Fund. Rogers has not made any comment so far; at least we have not seen any.

Nevertheless, it is clear that if Shaw and Videotron are left free to comply with the regulation or not, I imagine that, just as in any company... As the saying goes, “What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander”. Probably the other cable companies will wonder why they would send out a cheque for $50 million or $60 million, if the others can simply disregard the regulation with no penalty. So there would definitely be a danger of that happening.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

So we are into the logic of chaos.

[Vincent Leduc]

You said it.

I would just add that we cannot say that the Department of Canadian Heritage has been inactive either.

I think that Shaw showed its colours at the end of December.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

It was on December 20.

[Vincent Leduc]

It was just before the holidays, around December 20 or 22.

As for Quebecor, I have its press release here: it is dated January 23, so one month later.

Shortly after the Quebecor press release came out, the minister said she was confirming her contribution to the fund. So there was a collective sigh of relief at the time.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Yes. Let's talk about that.

[Vincent Leduc]

So, I'm not saying that she did nothing, because she immediately confirmed that she would be contributing to the fund.

Does this show some value judgment? We might think it does. She was not calling the fund into question. In fact, the Department of Canadian Heritage announced $100 million in 2007-2008 and $100 million in 2008-2009. So I must say in all sincerity that from our point of view, that was very good news.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

But $200 million over two fiscal years is a bare minimum in our opinion.

At the moment, could it not be said that there is open warfare between the private sector and the public sector? Would I be wrong if I were to say that?

[Claire Samson]

In my opinion, it would not be wrong to talk about a historic war between the private sector and the public sector. I've been working in this industry for 30 years. This competition existed back then. Relations between private and public broadcasters were extremely difficult, and that has not changed 30 years later—far from it.

[Vincent Leduc]

I would just like to add one thing: there is keen competition, and as in many cases, the competition is healthy and has meant that a lot of people watch television in Quebec. Because of this competition, Quebec and Canadian programs in Quebec are always among the ones that are most watched by viewers. So it would not be advisable to put an end to this competition. It can be said, generally speaking, that we can encourage it, because it produces some very good results.

We did not come here as independent producers feeling all dejected and down. Since the system was established 20 or 25 years ago, it has produced a successful industry and a successful cultural product. We might remember that these policies are mainly cultural, and that this is part of the national culture of Quebec and Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you very much for that. We have to remember that we have to try to keep our questions and our answers brief.

[Vincent Leduc]

Sorry. I'll do the same with my answers. Sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's interesting to note that the minister is now on an information-gathering session. From hearing my colleagues across the table, they're saying we should really remain positive while the negotiations are taking place. My fundamental question is that I don't really understand what there is to negotiate. These are the terms of their licence. They're in defiance of their licence. They've created a legitimacy crisis, not just in the television industry but across the entire regulatory framework in our country.

I would like to get a sense from you, as you're going out to try to raise funds this spring to get new programming off the ground, whether that legitimacy crisis is hitting in the market. Are people asking, are we going to be putting up funds when we do not know whether the two main players are even going to be at the table?

[Guy Mayson]

I'll take a run at that one first, because I think that has become incredibly important in the last few weeks, the huge uncertainty in the market.

You're absolutely right, Mr. Angus. In a foreign market—I'm getting reports back from the major “kids and animation” market in New York this week: “Our own Canadian broadcasters are having trouble committing to projects, so why would an international distributor be committing to your project?” So it's having a huge ripple effect. There's a huge uncertainty right now.

I would totally agree. At the end of the day, it seems very clear to us. There are always ongoing issues with how the fund is managed. We've all had issues with the fund, and so on, but to us, it's fundamentally a huge success story, and I think the regulations are very clear about where the contributions should be coming from and when they should be coming. Any discussion of the fund's future should not be taking place with that sword of Damocles, as Claire said, hanging over their heads.

[Claire Samson]

I agree with you. I don't think there is much to negotiate right now. If there is anything to negotiate and if it's going to be solved by negotiation, I'd like to know where to call to renegotiate my income tax payment, because I disagree with some regulations of the government. So we tend to agree there's not much to negotiate.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'd like to speak about the situation with Quebecor. Because of massaging of CRTC regulations, you have the massive media concentration in Quebec, almost unheard of in the rest of the country. Yet one of the attacks from Shaw and Vidéotron is that they don't want independent production being allowed to go the CBC.

For the Quebec market, we're looking at a massive giant that's controlling almost all of television basically saying we want CTF to be reconstituted so that independent production can't go to our competition. How would you see that in terms of the Quebec industry?