Evidence of meeting #40 for Canadian Heritage in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was yellowknife.
10:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Order.
It looks as though we have only one more presenter left. David Prichard has a few things he'd like to say.
Welcome, David. Please go ahead, sir.
10:50 p.m.
David Prichard As an Individual
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
I was informed that this would be a drop-in thing, so I didn't actually prepare a formal presentation; my apologies. I have also been informed, by the young lady who invited me, that I'm to keep this brief.
I was reading today that Intel is about to release a new chip. It should come out in about two years. It will be more powerful than ten thousand 486s of about 1994.
I started my career in media shooting 35 mm colour film for Budge Crawley, on his old Mitchell camera. That's how quickly media has changed, and that's why your discussion that I hear is largely obsolete already.
By way of example, I've been asked to teach a photography class in one of the communities. I'm going to go there physically, but they can't afford to have me in every weekend, much as I'd love to go there. Because of cost and distance, it's all going to be done over the Internet.
I don't read a newspaper any more. And contrary to previous opinion, most people now gather their news from the Internet rather than the newspaper.
The CBC didn't actually come to Yellowknife until, I believe, 1964. Prior to that, it was done by the Royal Canadian signals regiment. There's a picture on the web someplace of a signalman broadcasting to Yellowknife, with a Vargas pin-up girl on the wall and a beer in one hand. It wouldn't be permitted in modern media--not during on-duty hours, anyway.
So that's how much it has changed. I'm not an enemy of the CBC, but it has become irrelevant to me. I heard the concerns of the francophones here earlier today. They spoke for the best part of two hours. I have no complaint about that, but the francophone population is 5% of the Northwest Territories. The aboriginal population is about 60%. Have you heard from any of the aboriginal people? I didn't see any.
For that reason alone, it's almost irrelevant. You can't plan a northern service without the input of the aboriginal population on what they want.
In terms of what new technology is going to mean, it's not a coincidence that Bill Gates, late in 1996, was saying that the Internet was just a fad. Bill Gates is now investing more heavily in communications companies and communications transmission companies than he is in computer software and computer companies, because that's where the future lies.
I listen to a Toronto radio station because an acquaintance of mine broadcasts on it. My wife listens to another Toronto radio station because a friend of hers broadcasts on it. I follow everything, from Al Jazeera to BBC to the New York Times, and it's a changing world.
I won't say I hate the CBC, but you have betrayed your mandate. At one time, in conjunction with the National Film Board, we led the world, particularly in documentary productions. I don't think it's an outrageous statement to make that if we pulled out of Hollywood everyone who was either Canadian-trained or trained by a Canadian, Hollywood would collapse tomorrow. It's that simple.
You know, I don't see my life on CBC. I don't see it on Global TV, and I don't see it on CTV. I don't see the life of my friends, I don't see the life of my acquaintances, I don't see the life of my professional acquaintances. So why am I going to watch it?
I don't read the Toronto Star on the net any more, although I did at one time. All it's telling me about are the murders in Toronto. It happened; why do I want to know about it?
Blogging: is this going to be the future? Some of you may know Donald Crowdis. I believe he was the first presenter on The Nature of Things. He now has a blog on the Internet that probably generates him a greater audience share than he had when he was a professional broadcaster.
One thing you might look into, Mr. Bevington, if you like, is why the quality of broadband in the north is so poor. Every time I phone my provider here--I wish the gentleman from Northwestel was still here--they tell me it's downstream, so blame Telus. And maybe that's what it is, that nobody cares about us up in the north. On the other hand, Bell Communications launched an Internet satellite capable of broadband satellite for the entire country and for the north. That's the future. The computing power is coming.
I don't need a reporter. I got a bit cranked when this young gentleman earlier was talking about reporters. On the Internet, I read the pathology report from the Bernardo-Homolka...but we won't go into that. That's just to show you how much power is coming onto the Internet.
Where media had a chance to challenge our justice system, it declined to, and our justice system is poorer for it today. There is a murderer walking around who shouldn't be, in my opinion. I lay that sort of thing.... To me, the media has now become ideology; I don't care who it is. I groan every time my wife brings the National Post into the house, but at least it starts a good fire.
If the CBC wants to be relevant, do what you did 50 years ago with a different technology: get your bright young people, who are too stupid to know they don't know enough, and give them a free hand. Get them establishing websites. One of the best websites I ever saw, and this was early on the Internet, was an Ojibway website, brilliantly designed.
There's no reason the CBC can't offer the tools and fulfill its original mandate to train people in the north and across the country. In our lifetime, we've already seen the dramatic shift. CBC can either get with it or become irrelevant.
In the north now, Global television has just pulled out its local representative. We came up here to follow my wife's position, and I decided to go back to my original training, which is in photography. I was told by CP, by the Sun newspaper chain, by a number of different newspaper chains that they were screaming for news people in the north. They didn't have any. But anything I've sent down south, nobody has picked up on. Anything anybody I know has sent down south hasn't been picked up on.
There's a reason that people are ignorant of the north. I must admit that when my wife and I came up here, it certainly was not what we expected. I don't think the media in the north....
You may recall seeing a CBC show several years ago about the Folk on the Rocks festival. Our friends were all writing us from down south by e-mail, saying, “Is this what goes on in Yellowknife? It must be a great place to live.”
It's technology, and CBC has pioneered and championed technology for a long time. If it is going to remain relevant to the new generation, then it has to pioneer now.
Thank you.
10:55 p.m.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
Thank you.
Your opening comment was fascinating, because I was going to say the exact same thing, that although 50% of the population is aboriginal, we didn't get to hear from more of them. I'm disappointed, but I'm not blaming anyone for it. It's just unfortunate; they speak very well.
In defence of the Government of Canada, we do invest heavily in.... First of all, as you've said already today, CBC does a lot in aboriginal language that's well listened to by aboriginal people. But we also invest heavily in both radio and television for APTN. In fact, perhaps that should be more in the Broadcasting Act, more heard of. There was the shameful issue that they didn't get their funding until August, and I don't know how you can run something when people don't their paycheques.
At any rate, we'll leave that aside. I really liked your presentation. Our study is a three-part study--on the services, the mandate, the technology--and you're one of the few presenters who really talked about the technology.
Speaking personally, all the way over here I read newspapers. Those are relevant. Most of my radio time is spent listening to CBC. I don't get my news from the Internet. And just because it comes from the Internet it doesn't mean reporters are irrelevant, because it's reporters who made the news to go on the Internet.
Try to convince me, then, that new technology has made the CBC irrelevant. What should be the role of new technology? How should CBC change?
10:55 p.m.
As an Individual
No, what I would say is that if the CBC doesn't adapt to and present new technology, it will become irrelevant. It's a subtle difference, I suspect.
Most anybody now can put together a web page. If we suddenly get this increased processing power and the bandwidth to go with it, we can have Iqaluit broadcasting their own Internet television. That's foreseeable within the next three to five years.
What I'm saying about reporters is that I don't see my life or the life of my friends in the media. You don't see it up here so much, but look at how talk radio has taken over in the south. That's because people are fed up with being fed information, in my opinion, and they want to put something in. Plus, all these people calling in for free means that the radio presenters have free programming. That may be clever, but talk radio didn't have an audience 20 to 30 years ago. Think of how the movie put it: I'm real fed up, and I'm not going to take it any more.
What I'm saying is that what somebody in Wekweti is doing is probably more important to a hunter in Gameti than what Ian Hanomansing has to say about Vancouver.
Do you follow what I'm saying?
10:55 p.m.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
But how will the new technology help that? You still need a reporter in Gameti or Wekweti to cover those things so they can be reported in the new technology format.
10:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I think journalists have done themselves a great disservice. I get a bit upset with them, but I won't completely impinge their reputations; a large part of it has to be the organizations they write for.
We just had the Supreme Court justice come out and say that litigation is far too expensive in Canada. But when it gets to the point that media with deep pockets are afraid to challenge the government, then we're in deep trouble, aren't we. The best thing that happened in the Homolka case was the fact that it was put on the Internet and people got outraged by it; otherwise she would have gotten off scott-free...or maybe not scott-free, but she certainly wouldn't have gotten the sentence she did.
Only a fool would sit here and say this is what it's going to be, but if you look at the blogs, you see a great many articulate people out there. The use of digital cameras--and I hate them, but I have adjusted to the new technology--means that anybody in Wekweti can show, okay, we're going out on a moose hunt, this is how we live. You can read in the Toronto Star about the conditions up in northern Ontario on the reserves, but if they had access to the Internet, we could see the way they live. It would be far more immediate than the Globe and Mail going up once every ten years.
11 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Prichard, if you hadn't asked to testify, that would have been a great loss. I found your presentation really very interesting. You raised two points that I think are very important. First of all, it is true that no aboriginal person has testified here this evening. I'd like to know what that can be attributed to.
11 p.m.
As an Individual
They may not have been notified. They might not even be interested.
11 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Furthermore, Radio-Canada representatives came to meet with us to cooperate in developing our committee's mandate, that of restoring Radio-Canada and the services it should provide.
The Radio-Canada people know that the Corporation must take a different direction and adapt so that it doesn't miss the boat. You seem to be saying that it should take into account the fact that now there's the Internet and high-definition. However, here in the North, not everyone has those services.
How long would it take for people to get properly equipped so that Radio-Canada, if it takes that direction, can serve them adequately?
11:05 p.m.
As an Individual
They are currently expanding broadband capabilities into the communities. As for why Bell Canada has yet to release the potential of its Internet satellite, which as I mentioned was released several years ago, is something that you'd have to ask Bell.
I look at it from this point of view: Would it be cheaper for CBC to set up, in terms of infrastructure, Radio-Canada in the Northwest Territories, or would it be cheaper for them to configure it to be on the Internet once broadband came about? I just can't see...because of demand in the south. People are getting degrees on the Internet now. It may come here later, but it has to come here.
If the CBC and government are both leaning toward this, saying yes, we want broadband so that we can reach more people, then it's going to happen--or I hope it is.
11:05 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Prichard, I got onto this topic a little earlier with the fellow from Northwestel. I do think what you're saying has some validity in it. I do think this is why CBC's mandate is being reviewed. It does need to move ahead. We started with a love-in for CBC. Gradually, as the witnesses have presented to us, we've picked away a little bit more at where we think the work is needed.
You mentioned the opportunities on the Internet for a major communicator like CBC. I regularly visit the CBC northern site, because of course I'm in Ottawa quite a bit of the time, and that's once of my access points to northern media. I don't find it to be all that user-friendly. I don't find it to have the kind of linkages you need for northern stories.
Having reported in the north for 50 years, CBC certainly has incredible historic linkage within their own service that could well be part of a website they carry. They have that information. I mean, the Internet is only as good as the information going onto it. CBC does have information, it does have content. It has the capacity for a great amount of information, but I don't see it on the website.
Is that what you're talking about here?
11:05 p.m.
As an Individual
You're going to raise an old scar in me. Far too many technologists, just because they have a degree from the University of Waterloo in computer engineering or software engineering, happen to believe they're designers as well. They're programmers. They don't know the first thing about design. But that's a battle we'll leave outside.
The thing of it is.... The best analogy I can think of is that I have a friend who works for the CBC in Toronto. Because this is on the public record, we'll keep this individual's name secret. But this person marvels that the first time they walked into the Front Street building, the coffee room on every floor looked like Timothy's, with 16 different blends.
We're not going to change that. It's the corporate structure now. If you go anywhere else, you see it's the same thing. The changes are not going to come from Toronto, Front Street. The changes are not going to come from Ottawa. They're going to come from these young kids who have access to the technology.
I just think of the people I know who came back after the war, people like Budge Crawley. He took his Mitchell, trundled out into the Arctic, flew on Beavers, and got these great shots. Everybody thought he was nuts, but he was at the forefront of his time. The National Film Board did the same thing.
Do you recall the name of that gentleman who had the exhibition up here, who did the gold mines? Was that Hunter...?
At any rate, a photographer came up here under the auspices of the National Film Board, and did the most stunning work I've seen taken in the Northwest Territories--just because he was crazy enough to come up to someplace really cold and foreign.
So this is where the changes are going to come from, not only for the CBC but for any other organization. We have a unique opportunity in Canada as opposed to, say, Britain, which is much smaller, or the States, which is much more regimented, in that the younger people will come up here to get their chance. They're the ones who are going to make the differences, the changes, and implement the new technology. It's a matter of getting the tools to them.
Those tools are coming very rapidly. If I had told you in 1994 that I would have a chip for you 12 years down the line that was ten thousand times more powerful than the 486, you would have taken me down to the Queen Street mental hospital in Toronto.
We just don't know what's coming. The important thing for the CBC is to get the tools out of the cities to young and talented people who don't know enough to know that it can't be done. Let them get on with it, because that's where the changes are going to come from.
11:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Thank you very much.
I must say, this has been a very informative night. I thank everyone from this area who came out to our forum this evening. I also thank our staff, who worked to get all of this stuff together today.
Yes, Mr. Bagnell.
11:10 p.m.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
There was a lady--I don't know if she's still here--who wanted to give input, but not as an intervener.
11:10 p.m.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
You might ask if there's anyone in the room who would like to add something.
11:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Does anyone in the room have anything else to say?
Yes, sir.
11:10 p.m.
A voice
I just want to say that I heard they were planning to include more jazz music on the schedule, and I can't stand jazz music.
11:10 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
We'll get that through to them.
Just to let you know, I am the chair of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, and we as a group form the heritage committee. We are not the CBC, we are simply studying the public broadcaster.
I thank everyone for their great ideas and for being open and forthright here this evening. It might be cold up here, but I can tell you that the hospitality is sure warm.
Again, thank you very much.
Meeting adjourned.