Canadian Heritage Committee on March 12th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Any comments, Mr. Bagnell?

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Yes. I'll be very quick, because I know we have another round of presenters.

It has been mentioned a couple times that CBC television cameras are not here. In deference to the CBC, I think they're making a great effort to have an objective and unbiased hearing. It's sort of an evaluation of them, and I think they're just trying to be fair by not being here and covering something that's in their interest. I commend them for that.

Now, I'm not here to give input, because we've come here in order to hear you, but I do want to say on the record that it's been great for us in Parliament since José Bellemare has been covering Parliament in Ottawa. We get a lot of northern stories that we didn't get before, and that's been great coverage for us.

I have two quick questions. One person said that this is the only game in town. Are there any other radio stations in the Northwest Territories, and could anyone describe them?

[Aggie Brockman]

I could. There's a private radio station, CJCG, that started probably 26 or 27 years ago. There's also another radio station, CKLB, operated by the Native Communications Society of the Western Arctic. It does provide some aboriginal language programming, but certainly I think people do depend on the CBC.

They have technical challenges, as does the CBC, in terms of broadcasting all across the Northwest Territories consistently. I think their challenges are even greater because they're non-profit, very financially challenged. In terms of original programming, they don't really do any original news coverage.

So those are the other radio stations--

[A voice]

But CJCG broadcasts only in Yellowknife and Hay River.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Okay.

I don't know if you now live or have lived in a community outside Yellowknife, but do you have any comment on the coverage of CBC from the vantage point of a person who lives outside Yellowknife? Do the small towns get well covered in the programs? There was a comment about a school being closed in a small town, which suggests that they do.

I just wonder if anyone can comment on CBC coverage of all the other communities in the Northwest Territories.

[Barbara Saunders]

I not sure what you mean by “coverage”. What I had talked about and tried to express was the popularity of CBC in the small communities, by virtue of the response to some of the Saturday morning game shows they have, the phone-in type of thing, or the early morning show. We hear people calling in from all of the little communities.

For instance, when I was doing a lot of press in my former position, and I would visit the small communities, people would say, “Oh, you're Barbara Saunders; we heard you on the radio on CBC.”

So yes, it is their link to what's going on in other communities as well as the capital.

[Lois Little]

In some respects, people in small communities see Yellowknife in the same way as Canadians see Toronto. There's the Toronto-centric view of things and the Yellowknife-centric view of things.

As I think Aggie mentioned, if the travel is not there, the relationships aren't there. CBC North is a place where young journalists come and get their feet wet. They come and go pretty fast, and they don't necessarily go out there and build the relationships with communities that are needed.

That's another piece of why aboriginal broadcasters are such an essential part of CBC North. They have relationships, and they're not going anywhere. Work could be done around that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you for that.

Ms. Bourgeois, please try to keep it short. We have four more presenters.

[Aggie Brockman]

That's right, and only in English.

[A voice]

Yes. Pan-territorial are CBC and CKLB, Native Communications Society.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

It's very difficult for me to keep things short, Mr. Chair.

Mesdames, all four of you talked about the importance of keeping the CBC; Mr. McDonald emphasized that as well. I don't think the committee has a mandate to strike the CBC from the map for good. We know that, in some communities, it offers very good, even excellent services, given the lack of money at its disposal and the many cuts it has undergone over the years.

Some of you talked about your attachment to Radio-Canada. You must understand that, in Quebec, many Quebeckers are attached to it as well. Moreover, the ratings clearly show that, at certain times, CBC radio serves the community very well.

However, Canadian culture could, compared to Quebec culture, could be in danger of disappearing. Allow me to explain. With the arrival of cable companies, which bring in large numbers of American programs, you can expect to have enormous problems keeping your English Canadian programs.

As a Quebecker, I feel somewhat uncomfortable this evening defending your culture, whereas some of our members will have to defend francophone culture in their area.

Of course, Ms. Moral-Suarez, one of the first topics we'll be discussing in committee will be the situation concerning your station. I don't know exactly how to state the matter, but I know that it is unacceptable that your association should have to bear the obligation to maintain a station in the region.

I know that the Radio-Canada people are here this evening. I imagine they're going to check what is going on tomorrow. It is unacceptable for you not to be granted any funding because you are maintaining a station in your region. Furthermore, if Radio-Canada is able to take over the matter, perhaps it could do so.

[Carmen Moral-Suarez]

I'd like to clarify one point. As I said earlier, we get very good service and very good support from the CBC. Mr. McNaughton, who is the regional director here, worked very hard so that I could update this file in a few days. It was a very brief period of time. We started working on this issue in the middle of last week. I believe I'm going to be given some clarification on what we're paying.

That said, I heard that there was a broadcasting problem in Hay River as well. Those people are in a similar situation to ours. The problem doesn't just concern Yellowknife. When they wanted to receive television programs, they got some money from the Department of Canadian Heritage. Now they have to rent the location and broadcast facility every year. At least it's that kind of situation.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

How do you get the money?

[Carmen Moral-Suarez]

On your question

concerning the way we're going to pay for that,

well, it comes from one hand and goes into another. Heritage Canada finances us.

The funds we receive aren't intended to pay the costs incurred to receive Radio-Canada, which is a public service. This situation is deplorable. Those funds should be allocated to setting up other programs, as is the case in the other communities.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Those funds aren't limited to service development, but you deduct $7,000 to pay for the broadcast of those television programs. That makes no sense.

[Carmen Moral-Suarez]

Exactly, and it isn't just our members who are served, but the population as a whole.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Watch out and don't talk about it; otherwise they might take away that $7,000.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Before we end the questioning, Mr. Bevington has a short one.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you.

Certainly I appreciate the comments of my colleague from the Bloc. I'm reminded that last month, at the request of francophones, I was in Quebec intervening at an environmental assessment on liquefied natural gas. So parliamentarians speak to our strengths wherever we are. I certainly appreciate hearing about the issues that go on in the Northwest Territories.

That said, I'm very interested in your comments, Barbara, on culture, and CBC being our culture. If CBC is such a reflection of our culture, do you think the centralization of decision-making about how regions play out could really affect this culture here?

[Barbara Saunders]

Are you talking about the northern culture?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Yes.

[Barbara Saunders]

I think I was speaking more of a national culture, that CBC is known internationally. What people hear over CBC around the world is our culture. They understand us through the programming of CBC. What goes on with CBC is reflective of our culture and our sharing of stories, etc.

I hope that answers your question. That's where I was coming from.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I recognize how important CBC is to our culture in the north. As most of the presenters here have talked about, it truly does try to put together the north in such a fashion that we can comprehend it as well, and the relationships.

Now, what would you say about the relationship between CBC North and Toronto, say, in terms of how we're conducting business here? I've seen the change on the regional program, and it is a change that mixes national with local news. We have this different kind of culture appearing now on an hour-long show.

I don't know if any of you want to speak to that. If CBC is so important to our culture here, how do we ensure that CBC is not playing a larger role in our culture than it should? How do we ensure that we see the development of our culture as a...if this is a national organization that has such a strong influence on our local culture?

[Barbara Saunders]

I'll speak to that question.

Regionally, I watch Northbeat every night at 6 o'clock quite faithfully. I was a little confused when my beloved Ian Hanomansing didn't show--I love seeing his face--at 6:30; I thought he was sick or something. I liked the combination of the regional news from our own staff at CBC North and the half hour of the national news.

That combination works very well, because then you get both. We're still part of Canada. Even though the southern CBC still doesn't give northern weather--we're off the map for the most part--that could be corrected.

I think what you're saying, Dennis, is that when you think of the northern culture, our work here and our business here, we rely on CBC. It is territorial, and it does have a significant role in our aboriginal peoples having a channel to hear their language and to dialogue in their language.

So it is very important. I don't think it's vital, but I do think it's very important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you. I think we have to hold the questions right there.

During this round, it was mentioned that we came to the north but only to Yellowknife. We're holding hearings in Ottawa also. We are bringing people in from all over the country. We wanted to come to Yellowknife to have an on-site visit. Tomorrow we intend to visit the CBC facilities here in Yellowknife.

So we wanted to see a bit of what's going on here. There will be other people, whether it be from Yukon or Inuvik, to get their points across as well. This is our break week we're travelling in. With a minority government, you don't get very far away from Ottawa when the House is sitting. And that's usually when committees travel, during that time.

This week we're taking time out of our constituency week, the week during which we try to do our business at home, to come and make sure that we do get some input from Yellowknife. We had hearings in Vancouver on Wednesday. We're trying to do all that and still get home and look after our constituents.

I hope you'll take this as a bit of a reason why we aren't doing a whole trip. And I'd love to do a whole trip--as long as we didn't have to charter a plane every time we went to take off.

Thank you very much for your presentations and for your answers. We really appreciate it.

We'll take a short break and then call on Terry Wolfe, David Prichard, and Gérald Lavigne.