Canadian Heritage Committee on March 27th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Scott.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

There is a certain irony in the fact that by suggesting you're not sure whether the CBC is adequately funded, decisions are taken not to fund it, which forces it into the commercial marketplace--to be unfairly competitive somehow.

Let's assume that the CBC is probably underfunded if you do international comparables on other things: it's a hard country to broadcast in, with a small population and a big space. If we take that fundamental assumption, then we want a couple of things from the CBC. We need to have a better sense of where it's going and whether the public is going to pay for it. We also need to have a better sense of where it's spending, what it's doing, and measures against that, as you argue.

If that's the case, and we fund the CBC more generously than we do, allowing it to be less engaged.... Although it will always be there in some instances. The small businesses in many communities in the country would be furious if they couldn't advertise, because there's no one else there in many cases. So that has to be considered as well.

The view I think I see is not one I have much difficulty with, but carrying out that view would require significantly more money for the CBC. It's being asked to do things that are expensive in a very expensive marketplace.

I guess I'm really looking for your reaction on whether or not I'm way off track.

[Glenn O'Farrell]

I don't think you are, in all likelihood. Things do cost more than we sometimes anticipate. We sometimes make demands that have not been fully costed out, and when people go to execute those demands they unfortunately prove to be more costly.

But I come back to the fundamental issue that without understanding how the resources are being spent today, and on what, it's a very difficult discussion to have, because we are starting in a somewhat dark place.

It's not unlike the way a parent conducts a discussion with a teenager. You give a kid $20 and he goes out for the evening. He comes back and asks for another $20, and you ask what happened to the first $20. If there's not some kind of accounting, even in that minimalist sense, it's not very encouraging to just keep throwing more money at it.

We need to figure out what the money is currently being spent on, and then make the right assessment, if additional resources are required, to what end.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

If it really requires $30 for your teenager to get by on the weekend and you're only giving him $20, the difficulty may be trying to account for it, given the fact that they're basically always running a little behind. I see it in other places where the federal government is engaged. We try to hold recipients of grants or contributions to a level of accountability they really have difficulty meeting, only by virtue of the fact that they're strained in doing what we asked them to do for the money in the first place, let alone trying to keep track of it all.

I'm not saying that's the argument, but it needs to be put on the record as a consideration, because I think there is some element of that.

[Glenn O'Farrell]

We agree with that.

I would just add that private broadcasting and public broadcasting share a very challenging and difficult reality in 2007 by virtue of the circumstances we compete in with unregulated media. We hold ourselves to the same realities as the public broadcasters. None of this is simple.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With your permission, Mr. Chair, we will be sharing the time allocated. I will go first.

Mr. O’Farrell, your suggestion is quite interesting. You have added another dimension to everything that we have heard so far. In addition to the transparency of CBC/Radio-Canada budgets and the responsibility for programs by the CBC/Radio-Canada programming department, I am hearing a request to the effect that you would like, among other things, to be responsible for local programming. Perhaps I am mistaken; if not, are you prepared to provide local service in every small Canadian community?

[Glenn O'Farrell]

The CRTC carries out a review of every station whose licence is about to expire and that makes an application for renewal based on a series of commitments, including local service. In addition, business plans are filed and programming proposals made. However, that is not in every community; that only affects communities where conventional television stations operate services.

I would like to go back to the question that was asked to say that there are areas where there are valid exceptions to the rule that the public service should complement and not interfere in the very local market. There are surely some hypotheses—Mr. Scott spoke about this just now—and certain cases, I am convinced, where the private service cannot be or is not present. And the public service, if it is desirable and directed to, should be there but it should complement rather than compete with private services.

That is the basis for our position: it should provide a complementary rather than a competing service, benefiting both parties.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

That brings us to my colleague’s question.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I will ask all my questions at once. I do not believe we have enough time but if you should have the time could you send us one or more written responses?

I have three short questions. First of all, with regard to capturing an audience, we know that public television is founded on the principle of having a large audience. How can a public broadcaster develop as such and avoid the pitfalls of competing with the private sector? That is my first question

My second question is this: you speak of core broadcasting for CBC/Radio-Canada. Could you please explain what you mean by core broadcasting?

And for my last question: with the explosion of audiovisual media, would restricting CBC/Radio-Canada to the role of core broadcaster not result in the slow death of the public broadcaster?

[Glenn O'Farrell]

I think I will go along with your request and forward written answers to your questions in order to share or save the time remaining this morning.

[Maka Kotto, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

All right.

Thank you.

[Glenn O'Farrell]

Thank you for your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you for that.

I have one question that maybe we could get an answer on in writing. Can you provide the committee with some hard data that the CBC's activities distort the marketplace? What does it mean that CBC's activities distort the marketplace? Could we get some evidence of that sent to us?

[Glenn O'Farrell]

We'll do our best to respond to that question and provide you whatever factual information we can to illustrate that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

I thank our witnesses today for the very interesting session, and all members for their great questions.

The meeting is adjourned.