I think, first of all, you have--and I'm sure you do understand--two quite different media in this respect. Radio people set their dial and stay there. You have a station you listen to. In television, you pick your loyalties one hour at a time. You sit there with your clicker, and you flip around. So there's a quite different phenomenon at work in terms of audience building.
But more fundamentally, and I think very importantly, I think CBC Radio accepts the fact that it's not there competing with the private sector, that it has a niche that it's established for itself that it's happy in and that it's building on. Interestingly, its audiences are going up in both languages for both Radio One and Radio Two. It's not out there trying to draw away the top-50 crowd.
In television, if you look at the working level in the CBC in Toronto, I'm telling you their number one concern is competing with CTV. That's what they think they're there for. It's partly a reflection of this commercial reality and partly, I think, a historical thing from back in the 1960s and 1970s when they were king of the hill, and they'd like to think they could stay there.
I think that's essentially it. There's quite a different philosophy here. CBC Radio has a public broadcasting view. I'm not sure the same thing applies in television. In fact, I've often thought a great experiment would be to bring somebody from the U.K. or somewhere else with a public broadcaster, and hand them a radio and a TV set and say, find me the public broadcaster. I think they'd find you the CBC on radio in 10 seconds, and it would be a fluke if they found the CBC on television in the first hour.