Canadian Heritage Committee on April 26th, 2007

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Maka Kotto]

Thank you, Mr. Warkentin.

Ms. Keeper.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to split my time with Ms. Fry.

I have a question about artists. You talked about arts institutions, and I know the Canada Council for the Arts is very involved in the development of artists in this country. I know how key it is.

We have heard in our review that some of the arts groups, like the individual artists, are feeling that in terms of their involvement with the CBC, there is very much a different landscape now from what there was, say, ten years ago. Do you have any feedback on that at the Canada arts council, in terms of what individual artists are feeling in terms of their relationship to the CBC?

[André Courchesne]

It can be a challenging relationship. The reason for this is the multiplicity now of art forms, the multiplicity of artistic approaches, and the autonomy that technology brings to them. So even if they are more powerful to create their own art in their own space, in fact they face a huge wall when they want to go beyond their own creation. This touches on part of our mandate, which is the enjoyment of the arts by all Canadians, and it touches on the mandate of the CBC. How can we help these young artists reach out to new audiences, and new audiences in their region, in their province, across Canada and abroad?

You know that young artists don't have artificial borders in their mind or in their creation. They're mixing traditions, they're merging art forms, and they want to have access to as large an audience as possible. CBC has a unique role in allowing this to happen, through the Internet, for example.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Thank you.

I'll pass it on to Ms. Fry now.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you.

I think many of us have heard, and I know I have in the past, that CBC radio has allowed for us to really reach each other through our regional differences and through our multicultural milieu. Therefore, we have, as Ms. Priddy said, Indian music and we have various forms of ethnic and other cultural art forms on CBC radio.

I would like to know if you think...because my impression is that CBC television isn't doing this as well. Other than having a show where you have the token spectrum of the demographics of Canada on the show, playing roles, I don't believe CBC television fosters this sort of sense that there is a rich diversity of culture in Canada, either through performance or through music or art forms, or even through film that shows that diversity, other than a film like Water, or Fire, etc.

We don't see that kind of broadness of the culture of this country reflected back at us through television. Do you agree with that?

[André Courchesne]

It's a huge technical and programming challenge for the CBC. Radio is an easier way to disseminate work on multiple channels, and the same thing for the Internet. But for television, with the new technological changes that are happening right now, there is a potential for the CBC to do the same thing on television that they've done for radio and for the Internet.

I agree with you; because of this media and because of the technical aspect of television, CBC has not completely reflected the regional and cultural diversity of this country. We don't hear the regional voices. We don't hear the culturally diverse voices in their unique way. They are featured, but mostly sometimes as features, not as original voices. We believe these original voices should be broadcast, should be available to every Canadian. This is a real challenge for the CBC, but with the evolution of technology, I think this could be done and available.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Have you any idea how this could happen? Do you have any quick solutions?

[André Courchesne]

John, do we have a quick solution?

No.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Maka Kotto]

Thank you, Ms. Fry.

Ms. Bourgeois, you have the floor.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, it seems to me that your brief talks a lot about culture and art, but that it says little to criticize the governance of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

I would like to know what your opinion is of the current governance of the CBC, in terms of its board of directors. Would you change the type of governance? Would you include more people? Do you approve of the current president? I would like to hear your opinion on this subject.

[John Goldsmith]

No, we have no specific comments to make on the subject of governance. I think that as a Crown corporation, the CBC faces huge challenges in terms of long-term planning. As its management often says, they would like to have a long-term plan with guaranteed long-term funding to plan their activities and their strategic plan. From that perspective, I think in the end it is the only governance issue that I would raise, that is to say the ability to be able to do long-term planning with confidence, to have the guarantee of long-term stable funding.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I asked you the question because various groups from the world of arts and culture told us that they would like to see certain people, artists, sit on the board of directors of the corporation, people who would have more information and would be in a better position to make decisions on arts and culture. I was expecting you to make the same request. That is why I asked you the question.

Therefore, you feel that the people currently sitting on the board of directors are in a very good position to make decisions on arts and culture.

[André Courchesne]

As you know, there are 11 government-appointed representatives who sit on our board of directors. Over the years, we came to realize that the presence of artists on the board of directors—Karen Kain, from the National Ballet of Canada is the Chair of the board—brings a great sensitivity to the organization about the situation of artists. Having a balance between an artistic presence and a professional business presence has allowed board members to better appreciate the issues that artists face.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

If that was the case at the CBC, do you believe they would make different choices? Do you believe it would be possible for arts and culture to be better appreciated? Currently, it would seem that there is no one on the CBC's board of directors who is particularly interested in arts and culture issues.

[André Courchesne]

I believe that the CBC has made a great contribution to the arts and to culture. However, having an artist on the board of directors would allow it perhaps to have an even better understanding of current developments in the artistic world.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

That is what I wanted to know. Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Maka Kotto]

Thank you, Ms. Bourgeois.

Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of you for coming here today and sharing some of your thoughts with us.

First, I want to confirm that the Canada Council for the Arts did receive around $50 million in supplementary funding last year from the federal government. Is that correct?

[André Courchesne]

Yes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

So did CBC, correct? It got $60 million per year, for the next two years.

[André Courchesne]

Yes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I noticed that you said in your introductory remarks that you believe that the CBC is the only broadcaster leaving Canadians with a rich cultural understanding of themselves. In other words, the CBC is the only broadcaster that truly preserves and protects Canadian identity. Am I correct in saying that?

[André Courchesne]

We were speaking more specifically of preserving the archive of Canadian culture. Many of the artistic achievements of 50 years ago are stored in the CBC archives. This is a unique role they play, and it's very important for our own culture.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you for that clarification.

For most of the other witnesses, funding for the CBC has been by far the biggest issue. There have been suggestions from most of the witnesses that the CBC requires significantly more funding than it presently gets. At present, in real dollars it's probably getting about 50% of the funding it got, say, 10 or 15 years ago.

There have been different suggestions as to how that funding should be delivered. Obviously some of the witnesses have suggested the old model, which is just that the federal government should pump more money into the CBC. Others have referred to the CBC's having more access to subscriber fees.

Then there was a suggestion by a number of witnesses, including a former president of the CBC, Tony Manera, that in fact there should be a complete paradigm shift. As you know, the private broadcasters do receive some subsidies from the federal government--for example, through the CTF--and the suggestion Mr. Manera made was that the federal government should get completely out of the business of funding the private broadcasters and rechannel that money to the CBC. In return, the private broadcasters would receive the benefit of a relaxation of some of the Canadian content requirements. It's a different approach, a different perspective, on how we can solve the funding crisis at the CBC.

Perhaps I could have your comments on that proposal.

[John Goldsmith]

This is the first I hear of this particular suggestion.

In the first instance, yes, the CBC does require more funding to do what it does and to be able to do it more effectively. There's no question in our minds about that. However, we have not reflected on how that might be accomplished--except, I think, as we believe the federal government has a role in providing public funding for the arts, we would believe that is the case for the national public broadcaster as well.

There are undoubtedly other means of providing increased funding. This proposal by Mr. Manera will, I'm sure, be examined carefully by the committee. But I'm not sure that relieving private broadcasters of their responsibility for promoting Canadian artists and Canadian content is an answer either, frankly. I think the responsibility to support Canadian talent is shared between the national public broadcaster and the other broadcasters in the country.