Canadian Heritage Committee on April 26th, 2007

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

One of the issues, of course, is that the private broadcasters have to compete against foreign broadcasters, of which there are many. They're powerful and they're well funded. In fact, Vidéotron appeared before us some time ago when we had the CTF crisis, as did Shaw, and the indication from Vidéotron was they quite frankly didn't want any federal government funding or support. They wanted to do their own thing. They felt they could deliver services to Canadians better by being allowed to do what they do best, and that the CBC should do what it does best. They actually were asking for a complete restructuring of the CTF.

Now, they did come back to the table, and they have funded the CTF, based on the requirements, but again, the suggestion is that we need to look at new funding formulas for the CBC, that perhaps the old solutions aren't the complete answer to the funding problems the CBC faces. That's probably why Mr. Manera came up with a completely new approach. He was supported, by the way, by Mr. Bill Neville, a former chief of staff to Prime Minister Joe Clark.

Do you believe the funding the Canada Council for the Arts receives from the federal government is sufficient for the purposes you carry out? You confirmed that you received additional funding this past year. Is that current funding sufficient to deliver the services you're expected to deliver?

[André Courchesne]

The current funding structure is such that with the kind of support we offer from the federal government, on average, all the organizations we support throughout Canada generate a total revenue of about $1 billion. Our share of that $1 billion is now at 7%. It's at one of the lowest levels in the history of the Canada Council during the last 50 years.

This level is not significant enough to support the creation and dissemination of Canadian works of high quality that Canadians expect from their own artists. That's why we believe an increase in our parliamentary appropriation is needed to support the artists in their projects and in their dissemination, touring across Canada and around the world.

The solutions you're exploring for the CBC are similar to the solutions we've explored. Artists are seeking their funding not from one source, but from multiple sources. This multiplicity of sources brings artistic diversity, brings freedom of expression, and brings overall a greater dissemination of Canadian arts.

So diversity should be the approach in the funding of the CBC, as it is for the Canada Council.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Maka Kotto]

Thank you, Mr. Courchesne.

Before taking a short break and letting you go, I'd like to come back to a point that you raised earlier on concerning the decline in the production and broadcasting of series, documentaries and so on.

In your opinion, how has this situation impacted the living conditions of our artists, and by extension, that of our creators? Furthermore, what impact has this downturn had on the very foundations of Canadian identity, in the short or even the long term? If you wish to provide us with a written answer, feel free to do so.

[André Courchesne]

We would be happy to submit a written response.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Maka Kotto]

Thank you very much for having answered our questions.

We will take a short break.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Maka Kotto]

Good day and welcome, gentlemen.

We will now turn the floor over to Mr. Mayson and Mr. Mota, from the Canadian Film and Television Production Association. Gentlemen, please proceed.

[Guy Mayson, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Film and Television Production Association]

Thank you, Mr. Kotto. It is truly a pleasure to be with you again today.

Good morning, Mr. Chair, and members of the standing committee.

My name is Guy Mayson. I'm the president and CEO of the Canadian Film and Television Production Association, the CFTPA. With me today is Mario Mota, the association's senior director of broadcast relations and research.

Let me start by saying that we applaud the standing committee for initiating this review and giving us the chance to share our views about the critical importance of Canada's national public broadcaster to the continued existence of the Canadian independent television production industry.

The CFTPA represents the interests of almost 400 companies engaged in the production and distribution of English-language television programs, feature films, and interactive media products in all regions of the country. Our member companies are significant employers of Canadian creative talent, and assume the financial and creative risk of developing original content for Canadians and international audiences.

What exactly is it that producers do? People ask us that a lot. We develop projects, structure the financing, hire the creative talent and crews to help turn stories into programs, control the exploitation of the rights, and deliver the final finished product. We create high-quality programming in the financially risky genres of drama, comedy, documentary, children and youth, and performance programming—which the CRTC calls priority programming—providing diversity to the Canadian broadcasting system.

We also create feature films for theatrical release and content for new digital platforms. Independent producers provide Canadian television viewers with a Canadian perspective on our country, our world, and our place in it. As such, the independent production sector plays a vital role in the Canadian broadcasting system, as recognized in the Broadcasting Act.

We want to leave plenty of time for your questions, so we'll summarize some of the key points in our written submission to the standing committee.

In our view, the CBC/SRC is an essential component of the Canadian broadcasting system and of the success and viability of Canadian independent producers. Because CBC television is the most important outlet for Canadian television programs, and because independent producers create programs in the drama, comedy, documentary, children's and youth, and performance genres that make up an important part of CBC television's schedule, the relationship between producers and CBC television is symbiotic.

The CFTPA believes CBC television has done a relatively good job of fulfilling its mandate in the face of considerable financial and competitive challenges. In our view, CBC television continues to deliver a valuable service to Canadians. It plays a vital role as a domestic showcase for high-quality, distinctively Canadian television programs, but we also believe CBC television should do more.

In recent years, the combination of reduced public funding, cost increases, increased competition, and audience fragmentation has made CBC television more reliant on commercial revenues. This has inevitably forced it to compromise some aspects of its important mandate. To be successful in achieving the essential public service mandate and to do more, the CFTPA believes CBC/SRC requires adequate long-term public funding.

In these times of healthy budget surpluses, we believe the Canadian government should be reinvesting in cultural institutions such as the CBC and SRC.

Mario.

[Mario Mota, Senior Director, Broadcast Relations and Research, Canadian Film and Television Production Association]

In our view, in today's rapidly evolving broadcasting and communications environment, in which there is a constant proliferation of media choices available to Canadians, the need for a national public broadcaster that showcases almost 100% Canadian content on multiple platforms, including new media platforms, is more important than ever.

We believe the role for CBC/SRC in the 21st century should be different from commercial broadcasters. It should not simply offer programs that can achieve the largest audience in competition with private broadcasters, but instead offer high-quality, distinctive Canadian programming that would not otherwise find a broadcast outlet.

CBC television must make a greater commitment to Canadian drama, documentary, children and youth, and performance programming, as well as to Canadian theatrical feature films. CBC/SRC should also fully embrace new media.

Accordingly, we believe CBC/SRC's mandate should be more explicitly defined to reflect these requirements. We believe Canada's national public broadcaster should be subject to regular reviews of its role and mandate to ensure that it remains relevant to Canadians as the broadcasting and communications environment changes.

The CFTPA believes CBC television's commitment to high-quality Canadian content should be realized through a strengthened relationship with the independent production sector. CBC television should be a model for all other broadcasters in its dealings with independent producers. It should engage in fair and equitable business practices with respect to contract terms, such as paying adequate licence fees, not requiring unduly lengthy licence agreements, and equitably sharing in rights exploitation.

A proper funding model for the creation of independently produced Canadian programming is central to the growth and sustainability of the independent production sector. In our view, through fair and equitable terms of trade, CBC television should be playing a lead role in furthering this objective.

Thank you for your time. We would be pleased to answer any of your questions.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Maka Kotto]

Thank you.

We will now move to questions.

Ms. Keeper.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

I'd like to thank you very much for your presentation.

My first question will be on a comment you made about greater commitment to drama and children's programming. There has been a lot of discussion around the Canadian Television Fund, the last 10 years of Canadian television production, and the decline in support for producers and for Canadian television programming. Even when we were at the CBC in Toronto, we heard a comment from one of the senior managers that there was a direction in which CBC would be going in terms of looking at more international co-productions.

I found that a bit surprising in terms of a direction for CBC drama. I wonder if that is part of the reality that the CBC is looking at because of the lack of funding. I seem to be hearing you say--and we've heard this many times--that the CBC should be reflecting regions in Canada to each other.

Do you have any comments on the statement that they're looking at more international co-productions in terms of drama?

[Guy Mayson]

I didn't get the actual statement that the CBC official made. I understood your question, but I didn't actually understand what the comment was.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

It was that in terms of drama, the direction they would be going would be to look at more international co-productions. I assume it's because it makes it marketable. Do you have any comments on why they would be looking at going in that direction?

[Guy Mayson]

An international co-production is always an avenue to explore. It probably still remains one of the only ways to get a bigger-budget production made.

Last week I was at the MIPTV television market, and there's clearly an interest everywhere in sharing costs of bigger-budget programming. I think the trend toward international co-production is one we should be encouraging. It's a very important avenue, but we'd certainly be concerned if the volume of international co-productions were to completely take over the schedule of any broadcaster. Certainly our public broadcaster should be focused primarily on production reflecting Canada.

I think that in some cases international co-productions can do that as well--it's a global world--but what happens quite often with international co-productions is that they become a way to finance productions, and the creative elements are sometimes diminished in terms of the domestic content.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

I suppose that's a challenge that your organization, representing independent producers, is finding to be increasingly a part of their reality for productions.

[Guy Mayson]

It's interesting, because in fact the volume of international co-productions has actually diminished in the last few years, which is a concern to us. We'd actually like to see co-production revitalized. Canadian Heritage is looking at a new co-production policy. We're encouraging that to happen, but I think the concern is always that you don't want....

Five or six years ago, co-production was at such a level that there was a concern within the department and others that it was taking over, in some ways, and was diminishing domestic content. The market is so competitive now that we find, especially in Europe, that our European partners are primarily interested in partnering with each other; it's easier to co-produce in Europe with European partners, so we're actually looking to revitalize co-production policy. We certainly don't want to see it taking over the schedule of the public broadcaster, though.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Do you find that in that instance, in international co-productions, there's a reflection of Canadian...? Do you know what I mean? Whatever part of the country we're talking about, do you see Canadian culture being diminished by those international co-productions? Is the international market wanting a Canadian culture type of piece?

[Guy Mayson]

Co-productions are interesting to look at. Co-productions are still technically eligible through the Canadian Television Fund, for example, but you don't see too many going through there.

I think co-production is mostly attractive to producers because it is a way of putting a larger budget together, and it's something that's maybe designed as much for the international as the domestic market. So there's always that tension, but I don't think it has to replace the Canadian perspective.

[Tina Keeper, Liberal, Churchill, MB]

Right.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Maka Kotto]

Thank you.

Ms. Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, gentlemen. In the summary of your brief you say the following:

[...] the CFTPA believes that CBC/SRC requires adequate long-term public funding. In these times of healthy budget surpluses we believe that the Canadian government should be re-investing in cultural institutions such as the CBC and SRC.

In terms of reinvestment, do you have a figure in mind?

[Guy Mayson]

That is a good question. As producers, our priority is obviously to maximize the amount allocated for production within the organization. The public broadcaster has accomplished a great deal, but before determining an exact amount, we would have to proceed with a duly completed review.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Therefore, before deciding on the resources that the CBC needs, you feel that its mandate should be reviewed. In your brief, you say that it is doing a relatively good job of fulfilling its mandate but that more could be done. There are some inconsistencies in what you are saying. Tell me, what part of the CBC's mandate bothers you?

You can speak English, if that's more comfortable for you. I have access to the interpretation.

[Guy Mayson]

Merci.

In our view, the mandate, the role of the CBC is still an important one. The world has changed rapidly. What we're seeing is that we need to look at the CBC going forward, and what could its future role be? It's a fundamental role of reflecting Canadians.... Maximizing Canadian programming is still very important.

We would really like to see the priority of the CBC become increasingly focused on producing content for Canadians. It has such a diverse role now in terms of its many responsibilities, and I think it needs to be reassessed in terms of the changing world in which it's functioning.

What we'd like to see avoided is the kind of ad hoc, patchwork funding that's been going into CBC over the last few years, particularly on the programming side, where they're clearly stretched in many ways.

You're looking at $60 million being renewed on an annual basis for programming. To us, it's kind of a band-aid on a larger problem, which is: how is this organization funded, and how can you maximize the dollars going into production for the Canadian public?

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Some witnesses who appeared before the committee told us that the CBC is stockpiling programs. Do you believe it's commonplace for a public corporation to buy programming without putting it on the air afterwards? In your estimation, is this a sign of good governance?

[Guy Mayson]

That's a very good question. I would agree that from a broadcasting point of view, it's normal to build up some inventory. But they're so focused right now on trying to build audience that they're being extremely careful about scheduling. They're stockpiling a certain amount of production, and they're looking to maximize audiences, as all broadcasters are.

But I think what sometimes suffers in that is a longer-term commitment to scheduling Canadian programming properly. They're trying to be careful and strategic in the scheduling of Canadian programming, but what that leads to is more of a stockpiling phenomenon, where a lot of programming is being developed and acquired.