Canadian Heritage Committee on May 1st, 2007

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for coming in this morning. We appreciate your testimony to our committee.

There are a couple of things I want to talk about. Mr. Angus actually broached some of the issues we have both been talking about since the beginning of the study, and one of those, of course, is moving into this increasingly new technological age as far as broadcasting is concerned.

One thing I want to go back to before we get into that is the fragmentation of the audience, and specifically the younger audience. Right now, we are looking at the mandate of the CBC. My concern--and I think generally the concern around the table--is that we ensure that this mandate we give to the CBC, under which it operates, is going to be relevant for the generations to come.

I think your testimony with regard to your own children is something of significance. I think your experience is something that is shared certainly by many others around the table, but specifically I hear from younger people that the CBC isn't necessarily where they're at. It's not necessarily relevant to who they are, so they're not turning to the CBC.

I'm wondering if there's anything we could do, through the mandate, in terms of addressing certain aspects of the mandate to ensure that CBC moves towards that relevance for younger people. I'm looking for your opinion in that respect. Obviously you have children, people who are in this demographic. Could you give us your thoughts on that matter?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

Yes. Of course, this is such a complex question. I think one of the ways to achieve that goal of getting back the Canadian audience, and the younger audience, is to enhance all the sectors of production: kids production, youth production, production aimed at those audiences. I think because of a lack of funding, the CBC has been just getting out of some genres, and one step after the other, the erosion is happening. Also, there are all the large offerings of other specialized networks that are targeting those audiences with very specialized programming.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

You have experience in your own organization as well. At some point, especially with Canadians now having access to pretty much anything they want to watch or listen to, we have to be the best, and we have to provide a product that is second to none in all of the world, essentially. So I'm wondering how you as an organization survive in that type of environment--obviously you're doing many things to ensure that you do survive--and how we may be able to use that experience to include in this mandate review.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

We are a very special organization, being a public producer and distributor. In this world we're almost unique. There is an equivalent of the NFB in Australia, but our role and target every day is to do things that the private sector cannot do. We need to produce programming for underserved communities. We need to do programming that the private sector will not be able to produce and fund.

So maybe there could be some kind of parallel with the CBC for its mandate, but we focus on regional production. We focus on emerging filmmakers. We focus on--

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

And I did hear that in your testimony. I guess what I'm looking for is that specific key to ensure that we produce things that are relevant to the broad.... You're talking about specific groups, niche groups, and I think there's obviously an important role that you're playing in that respect, but I'm wondering how we bring the broader population to the CBC, because at the end of the day, Canadians all pay for the CBC. And if they're paying for it, Canadians are expecting something from it. I'm not sure what it is. I don't claim to be an expert on this issue, but I think there's an expectation that there be some provision of something that has broad appeal and that will bring to the CBC maybe not all Canadians all the time, but all Canadians at some point, I think.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

I just want to give you a parallel with the documentary world, which we know very well.

Canadian documentary production is very strong and recognized around the world. Why is that? Well, there is a tradition in Canada, of course. But there is also real funding for production in this system. Of course, all the producers will say they don't have enough money, but there is still a substantial amount of money—and we've produced a lot. Since we produce a lot, the offer is there and it's getting to the audiences, and it's being acclaimed. There is what we call in French une habitude d'écoute: if you stop being exposed to something, you will lack interest in that production. So I think there is a parallel here. There is a major shift to be made by public television in Canada, because it's been lacking the means to do what it used to do as a reference.

Just to give you a small parallel, in Quebec at some point we had a very strong presence of the French theatre or French films in our marketplace. In the 1980s the distributors stopped importing them and screening them and suddenly what happened was that American films took their marketplace and Quebec films took their marketplace, to the point that by the end of the 1980s there were no French films on the screens in Quebec. Now they've come back because some distributors have invested in them.

I think there is une habitude for the viewers: if you don't give them the product, they won't want to look at it.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you.

I think my time is finished.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Mr. Scarpaleggia.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome. I agree that your presentation was outstanding. I know the NFB, not because I walked by your building on the boulevard Métropolitain in Montreal, rather, because when I went to see an American feature film in the theatre, an NFB short was always shown before the main film. We left the theatre impressed and proud to be Canadian. We are perhaps of the same generation.

Furthermore, I have noticed that on one of the channels we get on cable, MoviePix, we are starting to see Norman McLaren shorts that are 40 years old. These productions are very impressive. This seems to be a new initiative and I congratulate you for it. However, I must admit that I no longer seem to see these shorts appear on Radio-Canada. Are you satisfied with your relationship with the Corporation? Could we encourage it to broadcast more films?

My second question is related to my first comment. Do you intend to work more closely with feature film distributors in Canadian theatres in order to reposition these NFB shorts, before American feature films, etc.?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

I would like to come back to the issue of marketing our films to Radio-Canada. Without a doubt, Radio-Canada and the CBC could buy more of our films. They only account for 14% of our television sales in Canada. That means that 86% of our sales are made to other broadcasters. The fact remains that the CBC's mandate is mainstream and more time slots could be set aside for documentaries. We would like to see that happen. However, we are aware of the operational environment of the Corporation.

We have often argued this case with CBC management. If there was a weekly show for feature documentaries, not necessarily NFB films, but something similar to what French and British public television broadcasts, a viewing habit would be created and people would want to see more. It would create a model. We need to work on making this happen.

As far as showing our movies in theatres goes, we have the example of the Danish Poet, which won an Oscar. We were almost able to show it at one of your meetings, but it did not work out because of something urgent that cropped up on your schedule. This film is shown before feature films. We have managed to show our shorts before feature films with two Canadian distributors. We are working a great deal on that.

We are also working on broadcasting a range of our productions in non-commercial theatres in the regions and in theatres specializing in NFB films in Montreal and in Toronto. In Montreal, the Ex-Centris features many of our films.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

We have to move on.

Ms. Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning Mr. Joli-Coeur and Ms. Drisdell.

You say that the NFB has forged strategic partnerships. You cooperate with several corporations of similar ilk in different countries. In your opinion, what is the average amount that the other countries invest in their programming, their broadcasting or their national broadcaster in proportion to their population?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

I am sorry, I do not have that information. On the other hand, I've heard that the amount the BBC spends on new digital operations is equal to the CBC's entire television budget. That's just to give you an example. As for new media, the BBC will allocate an amount equivalent to —

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

—equivalent to the funding given to —

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

—the entire amount that the CBC receives for its mainstream network.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

One of your goals is to expand the pool of francophone artists and professionals outside Quebec. Are there in fact francophone artists outside Quebec?

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

There are indeed many. We're talking about communities that don't get much coverage. They are production centres throughout Canada, in the Maritimes, in Ontario, that broadcast programming to francophone communities. You'll find these communities in every province. We're trying to make sure they fall within our net. That's one of our priorities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Abbott, one very short question, please.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I would like to go back briefly to your description of your family, because I think it's particularly indicative of the demographic my friend was trying to get at. They are making choices. So I wonder if the example you used, which was terrific—very graphic, and very, very descriptive—shows that, in your mind, the idea of regulating might really be passé. We're at a point now where your kids are watching these things on the Internet, which is fundamentally unregulatable, by definition. Therefore, is it not then a matter of the quality of the programming and the choices that the viewers end up making, viewers who are virtually completely in charge, as opposed to the government saying this is what's going to happen?

I wonder if you would agree with that point.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

I think that regulation will have to be seen another way. We will need strong funding for programming that our economic system in Canada can support.

If there are no Canadian programs on the Internet that our kids want to watch, they will shift to non-Canadian and other cultures. We've seen a very good example in Quebec recently--I don't know if you have heard about it--Têtes à claque. These are small animated shows--funny shows--on the Internet. They got funding from Bell. They were able to make that specific programming available and to market it. Marketing will be key.

So if it's not the regulation as we know it now, I would say it will be linked more to funding of specific programming.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Just before we conclude, I have one question. It doesn't have to be answered today; you could get back to our committee.

Should the CBC be something for everyone in Canada, or should it start to target certain segments with high-quality programming?

Thank you.

[Claude Joli-Coeur]

We'll get back to you.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay.

I'd like to recess now for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Welcome back. We'll go on to the second half of our meeting here this morning.

From the Canadian Association of Film Distributors & Exporters, we have Mr. Ted East.

Welcome, sir. You may go forward. I understand that you do not have a brief here in script this morning, but you might be able to send us something after, if you wish to.